Ep 12: Shooting the Sh*t About the Tony Awards (Feat. Daniel K. Isaac)

Every week, culture critics Diep Tran and Jose Solís bring a POC perspective to the performing arts with their Token Theatre Friends podcast. The show can be found on SpotifyiTunes and Stitcher. You can listen to episodes from the previous version of the podcast here but to get new episodes, you will need to resubscribe to our new podcast feed (look for the all-red logo).

The Friends took a break last week because Diep was out of town. But this week, they’re coming back in time to talk about the Tony Awards. It’s happening! And the Friends have opinions about what the awards ceremony should look like this year.

This week’s guest is actor Daniel K. Isaac, who is a recurring character on the Showtime television show Billions. But did you know that Isaac is a big theater nerd? He has multiple binders and drawers dedicated to all the playbills he’s collected over his 11 years in NYC and he shares some of his favorites, plus gives tips on how he could afford to buy theater tickets when he was still a struggling artist.

Here are links to things the Friends talked about this episode:

Episode transcript:

Diep:

Hi, this is Diep Tran.

Jose:

And Jose Solís.

Diep:

And we’re your Token Theatre Friends. People who love theater so much that you know we took another break. I apologize for that. This time, it was my fault because I had to go hiking and you cannot edit a podcast while you’re hiking because there is no internet reception.

Jose:

Don’t be sorry, we already give them enough.

Diep:

Hey, we have plenty of stuff on the website. Jose wrote a beautiful article about an outdoor immersive performance.

Jose:

Couldn’t go to the performance ’cause I had a migraine.

Diep:

Hmm, I know sad, sad. I couldn’t go to the performance because I was in the woods. Like Little Red Riding Hood.

Jose:

or Taylor.

Diep:

Yeah. *Laughs*

Jose:

What’s her cover called? “Out in the woods” or whatever. What’s it called?

Diep:

I think, no, “Out of the woods” is one of her songs.

Jose:

*Singing* “Oh oh oh, are we outta the woods yeah are we outta the woods yeah are we outta the woods yeah are we outta the woods. Are we in the clear yeah are we in the clear yeah are we outta the woods.”

Diep:

We are in the clear because the news that we’ve been waiting for has finally arrived.

Jose:

Which is..

Diep:

We’re gonna have a Tony Awards this fall. Yay?

Jose:

Nay!

Diep:

We’ll talk about what shows are eligible and not eligible very shortly. And who’s our guest for today?

Jose:

Our guest is Daniel K. Isaac. Who you might know from his stage work and also because he’s like a famous TV actor on Billions. And he’s pretty hot. Right? We agree on that.

Diep:

Yeah.

Jose:

Yeah. Yeah. And he, you know, we basically shot the shit with Daniel. So we’ll see that in a little.

Diep:

Yes, but first, first off we know some people have been messaging Jose saying, You all want us to talk about this.

Jose:

Yeah.

Diep:

So we’re going to talk about it. It was recently announced that the American Theatre Wing and the Broadway League will be presenting the Tony Awards this fall. And because not all of the Tony Award voters were able to see all the shows that had opened, they made the cutoff date for Tony eligibility February 19. Which, fun fact, is one day before the opening night of West Side Story directed by Ivo Van Hove, produced by Scott Rudin. Is this a–is this shade? I like to think it is.

Jose:

Really? Oh, from the Tonys you mean.

Diep:

Yeah.

Jose:

Oh.

Diep:

Cuz this year, that means he doesn’t have—Scott Rudin doesn’t have any Tony eligible shows.

Jose:

How long ago did To Kill A Mockingbird open? Is that like…three years ago?

Diep:

That was three years ago. No, his other one was gonna be Virginia Woolf.

Jose:

Oh, do you know anyone besides?

Diep:

Which he never opened. And never…it didn’t even… Oh, wait, no.

Jose:

It had previews.

Diep:

No! It had previews, it was like in like the first day of first week of previews, right?

Jose:

Or something like that. Yeah.

Diep:

Yeah, yeah. So how do you feel about us finally getting a Tony Award…

Jose:

Us for what?

Diep:

ceremony?

Jose:

Oh.

Diep:

Huh?

Jose:

I thought you meant like, us. I was like, Okay, sure.

Diep:

Are we getting awarded? No *laughs*

Jose:

Um, I don’t know. Months ago we said that Broadway was lacking leadership right now and that they’re doing it finally out of you know like they just you know…

Diep:

Might as well.

Jose:

Might as well yeah that’s like it just proves how irrelevant these awards are and how meaningless they actually are that they were you know, like, forced to happen basically by like public opinion probably and like, I don’t know, like, probably ads…no it’s on zoom, right, whatever they’re not gonna have like ads.

Diep:

It’s on zoom.

Jose:

It’s gonna be like…20% off a Casper mattress and Audible and the Great Courses, have you ever taken one of the Great Courses? They’re actually really awesome. But anyway, I don’t know, like, it’s just it feels like a little bit of a joke. Like, I mean, this should have just happened, like, at some point, and you know, like earlier right? Ah, cuz that whole thing like we’re waiting for something to happen. To me it always felt like just an excuse not to give like Adrienne Warren and Jeremy O. Harris and Robert O’Hara and like all, you know, the specifically Black actors and artists who might’ve won Tonys. You know that they were a shoe-in so they’re like, let’s wait until the white people are eligible to give it to them and now you have like really really sad categories where like, isn’t like best actor in a musical just like Aaron Tveit and the…

Diep:

Danny Burstein

Jose:

No, the guy—No ’cause he’s featured, right?

Diep:

He’s featured oh yeah he is featured.

Jose:

It’s Aaron Tveit and Chris McCarron from Percy Jackson—The Lightning Thief, Percy Jackson the musical—who is great and he should win a Tony.

Diep:

No you brought up a really good point with a whole like oh there’s only two people in this category because not a lotta stuff opened because this is how, this is how messed up, you know, the Tony Awards are: the reason not a lot of stuff opened is because most producers they pile on all 15 shows to open in March and April. So because apparently Tony voters are old and they can’t remember things they saw like six months ago. And they want it to be fresh and in a Tony voter’s mind. So they program 15 shows in March and April, which meant, because Broadway closed on March 12, 15 shows did not get to open. And so the categories for everything this year is really small.

Jose:

Yeah.

Diep:

Yeah. And if you’re unlucky enough to have opened in the fall, most of the time people won’t remember. You don’t get recognized because people won’t remember having seen you ’cause it’s a while ago.

Jose:

Which is bullshit. But it’s the same for the awards like the Oscars, the Golden Globes. Like it’s the same nonsense. But actually, and I’m not being like, you know, I generally—have I ever talked about this on the show? Like I genuinely love The Lightning Thief, Percy Jackson musical. And it is the only book I think, no like the only score eligible from a musical. So if it’s the only one, give it the Tony. ‘Cause remember how like I was so angry that show closed so early and I wanted more kids to get to see it. I love that show. Did you ever see it?

Diep:

No, I never got to see it. I feel like it was one of those things where Oh, I’m not a Percy Jackson fan. It’s not my demographic.

Jose:

Am I a Percy Jackson fan? No.

Diep:

No, no, that’s not in your demo—but you are a musical fan. You are much bigger fan of musicals than I am.

Jose:

Right. That’s a good point. Ah, are those pre-Harry Potter? No, everything’s post-Harry Potter, right?

Diep:

Everything’s post-Harry Potter.

Jose:

Right right.

Diep:

Except Lord of the Rings.

Jose:

Yeah, that’s like pre like history.

Diep:

Like pre pre pre. Exactly, exactly. J.R. Tolkien’s not on Twitter, you know, talking about how he hates trans people.

Jose:

Oh my god. Can you imagine that?

Diep:

Oh my god. Yeah, I tweeted about how it would be so awkward if Harry Potter was still on Broadway because then we’d have to have the conversation. About should we be supporting, giving JK Rowling money?

Jose:

I mean I’m sure she has like all the money in the world. She’s gonna be like, yeah. Wait, for a second I had a brain fart and I was like, why isn’t Harry Potter on Broadway? There’s no frickin Broadway…so.

Diep:

Anyway, uh, but you had a good point because one thing ­that I wish they would do and they probably will not do is not do categories. Because when I was a judge on the Obie awards, the fun thing about the Obie awards is it’s kind of like your high school yearbook where people pick like the—they make up the categories and they pick the person that best reflects that category. You know, in high school, I was voted most likely to succeed by my peers.

Jose:

Meanwhile, my senior class we all hated each other so much that we didn’t have a yearbook or a prom.

Diep:

*gasp* Oh my goodness. It’s like… it’s like high school seems so sad in Honduras.

Jose:

I mean, it’s teenagers you know how teenagers like drama.

Diep:

I know but not have a prom. I know you’re not American and proms are a very American thing, but you should always have a party at the end of the year.

Jose:

I mean, yes, we always—like I went to an American school so we had summer vacation like when it wasn’t summer it was like—it’s all bullshit also. Anyway back to the Tony’s. Um.

Diep:

Yeah, but I don’t think they should do categories I think they really should just give it to the people who they think did a good job this year. So it’s not comparing, you’re not—so it seems like bad taste to have people be competing with each other now since we’re in a pandemic and you don’t want to like knock other people down and make them you know, campaign for their award. Because it seems like a bad taste considering you know, I mean we’re trying to fight fascism.

Jose:

I mean, the Oscars were happening during World War II. I’m thinking so much about how sad it was in like 1995 where Rebecca Luker and Glenn Close were the only nominees for Best Actress in a Musical and Rebecca Luker knew she was not going to win. So she sat there with like, you know, like the camera and like the big square. I mean Glenn Close is gonna win this and there’s nothing I can do and you still have to show up. Well, I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s like tacky, it’s tacky in every way.

Diep:

Yeah making people compete right now is tacky. Yeah,

Jose:

Yeah, making people compete like all the time is tacky just give Tony’s to everyone.

Diep:

Yeah, like at the end of Mean Girls, you know, you take the Tony Award apart and just throw it out.

Jose:

Can you imagine the poor person gets like the base like super heavy? You get a Tony and a concussion.

Diep:

Yeah. Hey, things that last forever. You know?

Jose:

Yeah. I mean, I do hope that Jeremy O. Harris wins.

Diep:

Yeah, but I think it’s between Slave Play and The Inheritance.

Jose:

Don’t say it.

Diep:

I think it was always going to be between the two of those I’m sorry.

Jose:

Don’t say that word. I cannot believe that thing has gone on for so long like I thought it—once it was gone it was gone and it keeps showing up.

Diep:

You never forget it. It was seven hours, it’ll stay in your mind forever cuz it was seven hours.

Jose:

That expensive migraine.

Diep:

It’s in your life. It’s in your bones.

Jose:

Ew. I mean, I saw Slave Play like combined more than…No, not even I would have to see like watch like have to see it like five times for anything. No, I don’t like that.

Diep:

Wanna know what I really wish the ceremony will do this year? I really wish that, and I tweeted about this, I really wish that Broadway producers in the Broadway League will like pool money together in order to help out theater artists who are out of work because everyone’s out of work right now. And even if you were okay, five months ago and things shut down, not a lot people, you know, the average person in America only has $400 worth of savings. And not everyone is able to live off of their savings for this long in unemployment. And who knows when, they say it may come back in March 2021, but there’s no guarantees either. So like, where is the gigantic pool of money from like the Nederlanders or Jujamcyn? Because I—we know, they give a shit ton of money to political candidates, but why are they not giving that money to Broadway technicians and front of house and the people who work in the industry? I know. That’s my wish. I wish it would be about like, hey, theater is not in a good place right now. Please give money. We are honoring this art form tonight. We’re not competing. These are the people we love and this is how you can give money to people you love.

Jose:

I mean, Jeff Bezos wouldn’t give like his employees like, no, like overtime and like vacation time and like he made like 8—he’s made $80 billion during the pandemic, which is like fucking immoral. So I mean, I’m actually sometimes like very grateful that I’m poor. Because then I’m like, it means I can be a good person.

Diep:

Yeah, but that’s a shame of it. I feel like most of the people who, you know, who support us or who give to like these different you know, donor drives are like the people who are within a similar income bracket. They’re not like, the Scott Rudin of you know, it’s like I feel like the most generous people in society generally are like actually middle, lower middle income people.

Jose:

Oh, yeah yeah yeah , I get it. I get it. I get. I thought you were saying like Scott Rudin was like investing in us which like—

Diep:

No, no, no, no.

Jose:

No

Diep:

Well, technically some of these producers are our Patreon subscribers. They give $10.

Jose:

Oh, thank you so much to everyone. Ah, no. Uh huh yeah you’re right about that. Like, I was talking recently about how people often give what costs them like the least. I think if you lack something that’s when you should be giving. So I mean, even a buck makes a difference right now. But what about the Tonys? How can we wrap the Tony up? Like, who would you like to see win?

Diep:

I don’t care. Does any of it matter anymore? I’m just in it for. Okay, two people. I’m just actually three people and it for Adrienne Warren to win to get her Tony for playing Tina Turner. And I’m in it for Jeremy O. Harris has Tony for Slave Play and Robert O’Hara to get his Tony for directing Slave Play.

Jose:

Who would win like best actress in a play ’cause I would love it if Joaquina Kalukango won.

Diep:

Oh yes, yes. Or Jane? Jane Alexander. Jane Alexander for the…

Jose:

Oh the minivan.

Diep:

Yeah, yeah.

Jose:

Yeah. What’s it called? Grand Horizons.

Diep:

Grand Horizons, yeah.

Jose:

I mean technically this means that Audra [McDonald] could make it. No, that’s…no I’m kidding.

Diep:

Oh my god. Remember that? Remember that?

Jose:

I love that play so, I wouldn’t mind Audra winning something for it.

Diep:

The only thing I remember about play is her having sex with—

Jose:

Michael Shannon.

Diep:

With with Michael Shannon at the top. That that that was it. That was about it. Yeah.

Jose:

Now that’s in my bones. Thank you.

Diep:

Sexy Michael Shannan, you didn’t expect that, right?

Jose:

I mean, I mean, you don’t know my type. Anyway.

Diep:

And I’m dreading having to like celebrate Moulin Rouge because you know, I was really, Six was such a better musical and I was just really looking forward to this year’s Tony Awards and being able to honor Six, but we’re not gonna get to do that. It’s probably gonna be Moulin Rouge!, which is just Broadway mediocrity on a budget.

Jose:

I mean, I guess Aaron Tveit now is never going to be on the show.

Diep:

It was garbage! Loud Garbage!

Jose:

I mean, but we love you Karen Olivo.

Diep:

Yeah, yes. We love Karen Olivo.

Jose:

You know what I dislike the most about the Tonys happening? That they make 2020 feel even longer for some reason because they were supposed to happen in June and now when they happen in the fall, I’m sure I’m going to have some sort of like Are we back in June?

Diep:

Yeah, and what is it gonna happen? There’s no date, yet. Like if it happens before the election, it feels like it’s drawing attention away from something that’s really important, which is the election. But then if it happens after the election, depending on how the election goes, we may or may not be in a good place to want to watch it.

Jose:

Girl. I mean, how much? How many people do you think watch it? It’s never gonna take attention from the election.

Diep:

It may people are at home now. A lot. People, a lot of people watch the DNC and fun fact the people who produce the Democratic National Convention are the same people who are producing the Tony Awards.

Jose:

Ooo Eva Longoria as host.

Diep:

Julia Louis-Dreyfus, come host. You can make more Trump jokes. I’ll listen to all of them.

Jose:

Oh my god, the only thing worse than that it’s happening, you know, at all, which I mean, I want the people that we love to have awards, but the only thing worse would be if the DNC producers made the Tony’s like a week-long thing. Can you imagine that?

Diep:

But wouldn’t it be fun if like, I heard one of the actors in Inheritance is like taking a road trip and he’s like in the national parks somewhere giving acting lessons so wouldn’t it be fun if he had they made them make speeches like out in like the grand vistas of you know, the Rocky Mountains or something. “I’m in my parents house in Dayton”.

Jose:

Oh my only you know, like, What’s so sad about those Zoom awards is that no one like dresses up?

Diep:

Oh no, I’m really hoping, you know, people…I’m hoping people wash their hair and put a full beat on. For this.

Jose:

I mean, they won’t. Like two of the world’s greatest injustices so far have been in 2007 when there was the writers strike in Hollywood, and there were no Golden Globes, and Cate Blanchett won a Golden Globe that year. And it was a press conference, no dress and then this year when she wins the Emmy for Mrs. America? Zoom Emmys. No dress, so…Oh my god what else I gotta take from us, lord.

Diep:

I know or if even if there’s a dress you’ll only see like the top half. No one’s panning.

Jose:

Oh, do they still do that mani cam?

Diep:

Everyone send everyone like a multi camera setup—we need every shot of your outfit right now.

Jose:

Oh, I mean they should. That’s more important than the winners in the end. So anyway. Wow, I really don’t wanna watch the Tony’s so let’s move on.

Diep:

I still will, because, you know, I still know like Daniel K. Isaac, you know, I need to continue to feel the connection to this art form, even if it’s shows I saw a million years ago.

Jose:

Yeah, that you didn’t like I didn’t love anything that much of the eligible things that sets a play.

Diep:

Percy Jackson. You loved Percy Jackson.

Jose:

Yeah, I loved it. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, at least I have a horse in each race.

Diep:

Yeah, and Girl from the North Country is not eligible either. So that would make you happy.

Jose:

I mean, I saw it twice, like nothing about that is gonna make me happy anymore.

Diep:

Knowing it’s not eligible. And you might have to watch it again when Broadway reopens.

Jose:

I’m getting ready. I’m getting settled for a long winter sleep over here. Like, did you know that—Oh my God my doctor told me that back in October, we’re gonna be back in lockdown. Probably.

Diep:

Yeah, yeah. Second wave, you know. But remember to get your flu shot.

Jose:

Already?

Diep:

Well yeah, they’re starting to come out.

Jose:

God. I mean, so lockdown and the Tonys in October? No wonder we’re gonna have to watch them.

Diep:

Mm hmm. I mean it’s probably that or like the 24-hour political coverage. You know?

Jose:

Oh, Jesus. But like again, lesser of two evils.

Diep:

Exactly. Exactly. So I hope people dress up. Or at the very least wash your hair.

Jose:

Yeah. Get drunk also.

Diep:

Have your speeches ready. Yeah. Yeah. I hope people are drunk. And I hope people show us where you’re staying. You know, give us a Cribz tour.

Jose:

Yeah, yeah. And the mani cam. And speaking of drunk mani cams, I wish, let’s go talk to Daniel K. Issac. Basically, we shot the shit with him right? Like that’s what you call this episode. And that’s what it should be. Like the official name.

Both

Shooting the shit.

Jose:

Yeah.

Diep:

Featuring now Daniel K. Isaac. Yeah.

Jose:

He was so much fun.

Diep:

Oh, yeah. And I’ve realized he lives—he and I live in the same neighborhood. So whenever he gets back from DC, we’re gonna hang. Socially distance hang.

Jose:

And also our guests, our next week’s episode, lives in Queens right?

Diep:

Yeah.

Jose:

You’re gonna have to tune in to find out who they are, no I’m kidding.

Diep:

Yeah, exactly. And to find out where Diep lives. It’s somewhere in Queens.

Jose:

I’m sure you’ve said it before. But anyway, let’s go talk to Daniel. And I hope you enjoy this as much as we did because we also were having cocktails.

Jose:

Hi, Daniel, welcome to our show. We’re so happy to have you here. How’s it going with you?

Daniel K. Isaac

Good. Thanks. Thanks for having me. I’ve been listening to you guys, all 10 is it? 9 or 10 episodes that are out on the new platform?

Diep:

Thank you for remembering to re-subscribe.

Jose:

So Daniel, before everything went to hell, when the epidemic started, you were in the midst of shooting, what is it season five?

Daniel K. Isaac

Season five. Yeah, we really it’s…

Jose:

What happened? Like, do you remember what happened when they were like, no more episodes?

Daniel K. Isaac

Yeah, we, we were just starting episode 8 of our 12 episode season five. And I want to say I shot on that Tuesday, March 10th, and already by then it felt like things were going to be closing town or pausing for some time. And we had actually built in a week long spring, spring break for the following week. And so the producers made the executive decision of, we’ll just make your spring break two weeks instead of one. And then it ramped up. So on that Thursday, the 12th, we shut down for good. And I was also doing a reading by a playwright by Dan Giles at Ensemble Studio Theatre. And so we were also rehearsing every day wondering, Is this the last day we get to rehearse? Will we make it to our one day of performances on the weekend? And of course we did not. And so that was a scary feeling that you know, now we’ve just gone through four and a half months of, but the producer said, you know, we’ll see after two weeks and after two weeks they said that we’ll assess the situation, everyone stay in touch. And we’re just texting each other and you know, social media loving one another while we wait and see.

Jose:

What’s Paul Giamatti’s favorite emoji? No, I’m kidding.

Daniel K. Isaac

I don’t think I’ve ever received an emoji from Paul Giamatti.

Diep:

That sounds on brand. So I don’t know that much about what a Hollywood production schedule is like, but I heard that you can start filming, like you can start filming again in New York City at least and so have you been getting news about like when it might ramp up again for you?

Daniel K. Isaac

So yes, Cuomo, I believe, allowed it in phase four starting on July 20th, I believe and so filming has resumed and I think you know, my friend group who loves RuPaul’s Drag Race assumes Drag Race 13 is filming right now. And I have other friends saying they’re locked in hotel rooms at quarantining, waiting to test and so I know it’s happening. But for our show, I haven’t heard anything. And the approach I’ve personally taken, I don’t want to be the kid in the backseat of the car saying, Are we there yet? Are we there yet? So I’m just asking no questions, and just waiting. And I’ll be pleasantly surprised when, when something happens.

Jose:

Around the time that we first started talking about the idea of having you as a guest, you didn’t you know, we weren’t even thinking about a specific project of yours to talk about. And then like we keep getting like press releases for like so many things. And you are in everything. So how did you go from this like, okay, we’re going into a two week break maybe into you being in every podcast, and like every…

Daniel K. Isaac

It really is, you know, to reference your own episodes role as far as saying how it feels like we can work as an actor again, when we have these little projects, it has helped keep me sane to know I have this little thing. I have this zoom workshop with page 73. I have a week long thing with ensemble studio. I have projects in development with Ma-Yi theater. It makes me feel like the industry isn’t I know how much you hate hearing it’s on pause or it’s dead in the water right now. I’ve heard this recurring theme in your episode.

Diep:

I feel called out right now.

Daniel K. Isaac

No, but it was very good. Because I kept you know, I kept posting like I miss theater. I miss the business. I hate that we’re on pause. I hate that. You know we’re halted right now. And then I would hear your voices saying the industry is not on pause. It is figuring itself out in new platforms and new stories and new methodologies and how about we celebrate that and actively seek it out and review that and praise it. And so that’s helped me a lot with my grief of not sitting in the dark with a group of strangers, coughing and on their phones while a piece of theater happens in front of me live and, and to seek out the other opportunities instead and celebrate the my own opportunities I’ve been invited to.

Jose:

But I mean, you can still set up like a zoom call and have people cough while you watch something that’s like perfectly, you know, magical I think like you can arrange that better. You know, can you can you run us through like some of the projects that you’ve done, because it’s difficult to catch up with you, to catch up with you these days. The ones that you could talk about, let us know so everyone can go find them.

Daniel K. Isaac

Oh sure. The first one I believe I did was one of the 24 hour Plays Viral Monologues. And it was very early on and I think I agreed to do it before I was in a mental place where I could memorize a monologue in less than seven hours and get decent performance. And I went, I kid you not, I went crazy, trying to do the best job I could, for something that I thought would live online forever and be taken so seriously and was sort of like, I’m still an actor, even though there’s a pandemic happening, and I put so much pressure on myself, so I wouldn’t say look for that monologue, but it’s out there and I’m wearing a panda vest for no reason. So, and then I just recently did my second monologue in the pandemic, which I’m, I’m sure certain actors have done so many monologues but my new one is by Sylvia Corrie for the Homebound Theater Project. And every dollar raised goes to No Kid Hungry and they’ve raised over $100,000 and in this fifth edition, every dollar is matched to make it up to $20,000 matched which is just amazing. What else, I did a workshop for Dan Giles of his play Mike Pence Sex Dream, which is just the most amazing title ever. We did a virtual workshop of that, and I hope it continues on. And I did one of the pride play readings, I thought that I really loved the pride plays and I got to participate last year too. And I just think what they’re doing and giving LGBTQ+ voices, this much attention and their own festival feels amazing because I I always think it’s weird that we as New York City don’t have an LGBTQ+ Theatre Company, like About Face in Chicago and Diversionary in San Diego and I would really wish that to be the case. So this festival feels like a step in that direction.

Diep:

Yeah, well, we’ve noticed that you’re part of a book club and I know you’re also a playwright. So have you been taking this time to like, get back into that part of your brain the writing part?

Daniel K. Isaac

Totally I, I am in a long list of emerging playwrights whose first pieces were cancelled or postponed because of the pandemic. But I did recently get to announce that the National Endowment of the Arts has supported this Untitled Gay Sex and Conversion Therapy Play of mine directed by Ralph B. Peña, who is the artistic director of Ma-Yi Theatre Company. And so while our production is postponed indefinitely, I am very grateful that we’ve done a workshop and have pending workshops of that as well as Ma-Yi has turned around incredibly fast and said, “How do we employ artists? How do we get worked actors and writers and designers in this time because it’s certainly not going to be in an indoor theater.” And they created Ma-Yi studios, which I just, I’m so in awe of how fast they’ve moved. And how they’re literally putting money where their mouth is. And I personally have been sustained by Ma-Yi funds over this summer, as they’ve commissioned work from me, and I’m sure a slew of other artists of creating, I don’t know what to call it. But digital plays or storytelling for this medium that is maybe just a little bit more elevated than zoom or what the what technology of zoom is able to do. And so I’m cautiously optimistic about that future and I’ve also been turning all of my plays into pilots or screenplays, because it’s a good exercise, I should have that portfolio and I don’t. I stubbornly wanted to just be a playwright, but um, I think the industry of theatre can’t safely return live until we are post vaccine. And so I I have a little more faith in TV and Film potentially being able to bounce back in small incremental ways. And I I’d love to see storytelling that I write come alive there in this time and not think that I just have to wait for however many years before theater resumes so…

Jose:

Right cuz it’s not past. Remember we’re gonna quiz you at the end Daniel to see if you have been listening to all the episodes, for real. And I’d also like you should totally like take over and replace one of us like when one of us is sick. We’re naming you like the official extra TTF. Yeah, but you know, but from all these things that are keeping you like, you know, cautiously optimistic, what are some things that you really love that you want to bring into this new world if we ever are allowed to beat the house again?

Daniel K. Isaac

Yeah. I, um, my first thought was equity and access as far as price is concerned and so I feel like so much of the archives of theater or even the new pieces have been allowed to be seen across the country in the world for $0 to you know, X amount of less dollars than actually sitting in a theater, and I wish that kind of access could always available for anyone to be able to see it. And I, I, I don’t know how but I hope that that practice, and those statistics exist somewhere that people who normally wouldn’t get to see Hamilton as the extreme example, got to see it. What does that age demographic look like? What does the color of their skin and where are they in the world getting to see that versus the the rich tri state area they got to see it or the people who flew in on their private jets and got to see it? On Broadway. And I’d also love to see…I think there’s an immediacy to storytelling happening now. Whereas I always remember this joke that Taylor Mac made and The 24-Hour Plays about how you come up with the idea of a play, you write, set play, and then you workshop it, or you have a reading and then you have a workshop, and then you have an out of town tryout to have another producers reading, to have another in town workshop, and then the Off-Broadway run and then maybe the Broadway run and now 7 or 10 or 15 years have passed since the initial examination of the idea of the project and what does that do to the life that you were trying to breathe in there or the question you were posing, posing there, and is that relevant by the time the machinations of theater and the hoops you have to jump through are done and it gets to be seen by the audience that maybe isn’t even alive or as aged out of the generation it was trying to speak to or all of those factors. I’m so excited by: here’s a story, someone’s written it someone’s acted and produced it, and here it is online, and as much as I miss, say, like high editing quality or reliable internet speeds in the midst of this, I’m so glad that stories are being told. And that they feel a little more urgent. Not saying I want pandemic-themed storytelling for from here to kingdom come, but I I am excited by any stories that feel alive and of the now that wouldn’t have gotten this opportunity.

Jose:

Since we have all been trapped at home for over 100 days now like what is it like 150 days or something like that now, I am about to try out knitting for the first time, which is like bonkers. So, I wonder what’s like the nerdiest like, you know, like, project at home that you’ve taken on Daniel, during this really, really strange summer.

Daniel K. Isaac

The nerdiest project I’ve taken on is, is organizing all of my playbills and scripts and papers, and I bought a second four drawer filing cabinet so that I could fully put them in dividers and mark the years and I even bought those extra wide files versus the regular size green files that hang that is that is my organized hoarding. And a little bit about me that you might not have known. But, so I got to pull out some fun old playbills that I thought we could walk down memory lane, and since it’s my it’s almost my 11 year anniversary in New York but I have playbills from 2009 forward to try to play with or show and tell with you guys.

Jose:

Do it, but wait, how many playbills are we talking about that you currently own? Are we talking in like the thousands?

Daniel K. Isaac

Oh, okay, so I know that I own 25 full Playbill binders and I think they fit like 30 or so in there and then I have files marking each year with non Playbill-size playbills and that takes up an entire…

Diep:

How did you afford to go to all those shows?

Daniel K. Isaac

I learn every year that I do practices that I don’t I don’t spend my money on clothes as much as I think I do on eating out as much as I think I do or traveling. I really should travel with this money is what I’ve learned and maybe I should have invested and you know bought property or something. I really spend all my money on tickets. And you know, the IRS has audit me audited me so many times before I can afford a professional accountant, because I think they look how much research money I spend on tickets. But I I do and every time they audited me, all I did was scan my ticket stubs, or like receipts to say, No, no, I have proof. And yes, I did go to all these shows. And one year I was feeling a little petty and bored that I just started to like, talk about the things that spent money on for the auditor to have fun reading about and I got my money back that year. So it’s just I’ve contested it every time.

 

Jose:

So I want to build like a statue of you like in the middle of Times Square. It’s like, you know, the man. It’s like, single handedly keeping theater alive.

Daniel K. Isaac

Well, I mean, I love my discount. When I was younger, I would do the early morning lineups I love TDF is so great. And you know, I’ll love a good comp, although, once I made as you know, once I could sustain myself as an artist, I try to not use comps and put money back into companies because I don’t know if this is 100% true, but I don’t think any theater show makes its money back on ticket sales like in an off Broadway version, right? I think it’s all

Diep:

Not even Broadway shows sometimes.

Daniel K. Isaac

Yeah like, like museums don’t exist on ticket sales. They exist on the like, huge donors that funded and government support and etc. Right. So I try to do what little I can and at least buy a ticket for especially the Off-Broadway companies that I really care about. You know, employ my friends or people who look like me, so.

Jose:

Okay, show us your favorites. I cannot wait.

Daniel K. Isaac

Okay, that they’re in the order of year so I guess I pulled this from 09/2010 This is David Cromer’s Our Town. And that was at Barrow Street. And I know I just brought up the whitest example ever. I’m talking. It’s a brag about inclusivity and diverse storytelling. But this one meant a lot to me because I I loved seeing David Cromer on stage and this show and then I got to work with him on Billions. And I thought that that’s one of those if you work in this industry long enough things happen that you would never expect. And that’s a huge piece of gratitude that like, you know, A Band’s Visit was one of my favorite shows of that season. And he directed that, you know, I think he’s incredible. And just like a wonderful, fun human being. Brief Encounter that was at St. Ann’s warehouse, transferred to Broadway. And one of the coolest effects were you were watching the movie version within the show. And then the actors would step out of the movie curtain. And it was timed perfectly so that their bodies moved out of the curtain when they were leaving the screen. Little things like that. Blew my mind.

Diep:

Yeah. Oh, that’s one of like the first shows I paid money for in New York when I moved here.

Daniel K. Isaac

And well worth the dollar.

 

Jose:

And that was one of those first shows that I think Damon Daunno who we love was in.

Diep:

Yeah.

Jose:

Yeah, he was, you know, Curly from the new Oklahoma.

Daniel K. Isaac

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love that Oklahoma. Okay, this is ’09. Circle Mirror Transformation, Annie Baker’s play. I knew nothing about it going in and I just it reinvigorated my love of new play storytelling and, and that intimate space and playwrights horizons is my favorite and often were the people of color are relegated to as well but also my favorite, it’s intimacy. And I got to act in there doing a play by Kim Park, directed by Carlos Armesto called Disoriented back in 2010 or 2011. So I’ll always have a soft spot for that theater as much as my bucket list is to work in the bigger theater downstairs as a political statement. This is from the 2012-2013 season NATCO National American Asian American Theatre Company did Awaken and Sing with an all Asian American cast. And I had studied Odets in undergrad, and I never thought I could see myself in an Odets play. And yet I love Odets language so much. And the same goes for Tennessee Williams. And so to see a company whose mission was to take classics and put Asian bodies in them meant so much to me, and I hope and know that they’ll continue to do it and that one meant a lot and it’s full of friends that I just love. Okay, speaking of like old programs that you would say Diep, this one is The Great Comet when it was at Ars Nova.

Diep:

Oh, wow, you were there from the beginning. I wasn’t even there then.

Daniel K. Isaac

I, I didn’t even know what I was going to see. I think my friend Kate Yu, maybe, a playwright took me saying like, this is supposed to be good. And the night we went, I feel like Sondheim was sitting at another table. And I don’t think I’m making that up. I just remember thinking, oh, wow, he’s here. That’s a big deal. And, and the intimacy of it, you know, while they did an incredible job of transferring that to Broadway. Also because I only said on stage whenever I saw it on Broadway. I do. I will always treasure the feeling of they did this simple gesture of you know, when You swirl your finger on a water glass and there’s that sound when 20 ensemble mates are doing that at the same time…that, like goosebumps doesn’t even capture what that feels like and I think I’ll always remember that moment and how special that was. Okay, I made it to 2014 I’m trying to go along. New York Theatre Workshop Scenes From A Marriage. Mia Katigbak, Roslyn Ruff, who was the last performer I saw in Help before we shut down, that was my last performance I’ve gotten the privilege to see. Yes, Susanna Flood, Tina Benko, Alex Hurt—this cast was amazing. And did you get to see Scenes From A Marriage either you? Imagine New York Theatre Workshop, where they divided it into three rooms and you traveled between the three rooms for the first half of play. And then, at intermission, they lifted the walls of the rooms and you realize that the audience was set in a circle. So the audience encircled the entire space. And then the last act was done in the roundabout way. Just amazing. And that like that Mia Katigbak could be a white-bodied person’s mother. And Roslyn Ruff and Alex Hurt are in an interracial relationship to me does more to the story than just seeing white bodies on stage or what I imagined. I haven’t seen the movie but I think it’s a majority white cast there. So yeah, yeah. So I appreciated that. You can stop me whenever if this is boring.

Jose:

This so adorable. Even though you’re like younger than me I feel like this is like Auntie Daniel, telling me about her adventurous theater. I have, like…

Diep:

You may be like the nerdiest person we’ve ever had.

Daniel K. Isaac

I’ll take it.

Diep:

And like maybe nerdier than us even. Yeah, but I do want to ask you, I do want to ask you, I don’t wanna cut you off. But I’m just wondering, like, why don’t you realize like you were a nerd for this stuff. Because you grew up in Orange County like I did, and that wasn’t exactly theater in Orange County.

Daniel K. Isaac

I will credit my mom, my single mom who I have many issues with as far as like, religion and politics are concerned. But my mom would do this thing every weekend where she opened the LA times to the culture section to see what was available, especially what was free that was available. And when I was growing up, she worked at a bank that got a lot of comp tickets because her building was in downtown LA. Les Mis was my first music. I saw Spelling Bee in San Diego when I was in college, and Sarah Stiles was touring there. And she’s on Billions now and was just in Tootsie and that just…Billions has been my biggest, like Venn diagram overlap here in life, because it employs the most amazing theater actors. Oh, but to answer your question, Diep, I studied abroad for a London for a year in London, and I took out a shit ton of loans and, and I used them to buy theater tickets, and I will credit that London has amazingly affordable ticket prices for students. I didn’t party. I never got laid in London. I could not get a date to save my life there. I hated being called oriental. And I believe I saved all those playbills but they’re in storage and California somewhere. And I kept that nerd-dom and, and I moved to the city and I just tried to see as much as I could as much as I could afford, as much as I could rush to. It feels like an inspiration, it feels like an education. And I like to be reminded of why I live in this city that is not a forgiving city at times and can be very challenging and difficult. But if I go to the Museum of Modern Art, and then I can like, go see a play, and then go for drinks with friends. I’m reminded of I, I didn’t even take a subway to do all those three things that people save up all year to fly here to do or it’s their one high school trip of the year that they get to go outside of their hometowns and my hometown has all of it in my backyard and I get to like it’s an excuse to hang out with friends who are on stage and then drink with them after.

Jose:

And now we’re all gonna cry.

Daniel K. Isaac

Right, yeah, well, this is the part of live theater that I miss and that that’s there’s nothing like that. Like, like Diep the last time I saw you was at and it was one of the upstairs shows at playwrights horizons and I can’t remember the name of it at this moment. But I remember you sat like I wrote in front of me and I thought, oh, Diep’s here and I would ask her out for a drink, but I know she’s cautiously introverted, and so I’ll wait till we’re closer friends.

Diep:

Daniel, no one knows I’m introverted. This is so amazing. I feel so seen.

Daniel K. Isaac

Well, Jose, I saw you at Second Stage show where the U-Haul went through the wall, right?

Jose:

Yeah. Uh, at…

Diep:

Grand Horizon. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel K. Isaac

Is an amazing effect of a U-Haul crashing through a wall. Hands down. Amazing design there. Yeah, and those are like, and I count you guys as friends and colleagues. Now even more so and like my memory of that show is heightened by my memory of seeing you guys there. And how we do that in theater lobbies at intermission in line for the bathroom, or crowding around at the stage door after. And so there’s nothing like that.

Jose:

This is so beautiful. Like I’m, I’m like…

Diep:

I know.

Jose:

If it’s a margarita or the heat or everything but like, you’re making me think that for you, you know, like one of the things that people often talk about when it comes to theater is that it’s so ephemeral, right? And we see the performance and then it’s gone. But while you’re talking about is making me think of all your programs that you have saved for over a decade, almost as like snow globes where like you can grab them and like shake them and then also you have like an impressive memory by the way.

Diep:

Yeah, yeah.

Daniel K. Isaac

They are their time capsules and so I could never have Marie Kondo them even if I didn’t necessarily like the show, because they’re part of the that chapter or that year or that experience and those seasons inform each other and like as I went through these old playbills to see names of actors that I didn’t know then and that now I’ve done a show with or a reading with or a TV show with, just is a testament to the like marathon that is our industry and the rewards that happen when you see it as a marathon and not a sprint. And I I find that so rewarding. And then I guess like theater is my church. Now it is my community. It is. As much as you know, we are in a moment of reckoning and accountability and tear it all down and rebuild it for the better state of evolution, I, I will always love this industry and, and I think that’s why I passionately fight for the changes that I believe can happen in this moment. And I’ll remain cautiously optimistic there that we’ll see real change so that my playbills aren’t evolving from just all white cast to more inclusive cast but that they’ll all be inclusive and, and just diverse, diverse storytelling and just colorful and all sorts of bodies and identities represented on stage. And I think that’s why I write too to try to include that myself or actualize that world for myself and..

Jose:

Okay, if anyone from the government is watching or listening to this, now you need to find a vaccine. Just so this man can have more programs to add to his collection, ’cause this is like incredible. You made me miss getting outside again, which is Yeah. Thank you Daniel.

Diep:

Can I ask you something?

Daniel K. Isaac

Yeah, please anything.

Diep:

Yeah, yeah, can I can I ask you something about can I ask you something about your mom because I’m in Facebook groups with other API’s trying to figure out how to talk to their parents about this moment right now. And so what have you over the years, you know, you and your mother have disagreed about your sexuality. And so like what what have like what have been some tactics you’ve taken from those discussions that that maybe other people can apply when they’re talking to parents.

Daniel K. Isaac

I will represent the side but I guess it’s not the happy ending where my mother and I lived through the LA riots and my aunt had a liquor store and my biological father had a car dealership like a small tiny car dealership, and while neither were completely destroyed, our neighbors, our church members’, our colleagues’ properties were damaged or irrevocably taken away from them, and that trauma has lived in my mom. And so she, it has been very difficult to talk about Black Lives Matter and about these protests, violent or non-violent. And I, my mother has been the greatest example. And I think an illumination that might have occurred after our election in 2016 is how social media is a bubble or echoes what you want to see and mirrors what you want to hear, and, and whatever those algorithms are, are not necessarily exposing you to what other people may firmly believe is their truth. And my mother has always been the barometer for me of knowing what is what is very hard for me to navigate is that that which is absurd and untrue fabrication or a lie that comes out of Trump’s mouth, or that comes out of his cabinet gets disseminated in fox news or conservative news outlets, and then somehow gets translated into Korean and my mother listens to that reads that and devours it as truth. And only parrots that which Trump says or believes like, she’ll say fake news in Korean. She’ll say make America great again. She’ll parrot these things that I find such heartbreak and feelings of contradiction in the fact that she is a cis woman, an immigrant, and a single parent, and she’ll say, well, I worked harder and she’ll be spouting the model minority myth and putting down other immigrants, even though like I recently learned, she came here because she was engaged to a man who was recently divorced and that engagement might have helped her get her citizenship. So I call hypocrisy where I see it. She has this trauma from the LA riots, which is rightfully so. But the way she posts every video possible of Black bodies, looting places, and yet what I tried to do is continue to engage and humanize and try to find points of empathy not to diminish the Black body to experience in America, but to talk about how she herself had to work so much harder as an Asian body as an immigrant, as a cis female in a world that was white patriarchally structured cis male-favored and non-immigrant, you know nepotism favored. And if I can, if I catch her on a good day, we can rationally talk about this and I got to talk to her about it when the Black Lives Matter protests were very high in numbers and enacting curfews in LA, I gone to visit my mother and see her in the backyard and not stay with her, but, you know, wear a mask and try to touch base with her and she would say, you know, when I was younger, I took you to the Martin Luther King Jr. parade, so that you knew what the Black body of experience was in America, we owe them as immigrants and for opening doors and allowing us to have rights that we didn’t have and it is on their bodies that we do have them on their blood that we do have them. And she can say that and beautifully meaning and also turn around and that same evening post a video of Black bodies looting some small business and, and that contradiction exists in her and all like I try like I’ve tried commenting on every single one of those, I’ve tried reporting into Facebook just to get the like original seed of it deleted. I know my mother’s password, so I could be as petty as to delete it myself. But you know, and my purpose is like, don’t. I gave my mother a credit card to like support her a year or two ago and he’s always like, you could revoke her credit card and you could take her car away and and, like, try to do these things that would be much harsher. But in the same way I imagine parents let their children go to formulate their own beliefs and, and while I questioned the validity of truth, and while we live on opposite sides of a liberal-conservative binary, I tried to continue to engage and and hope that I catch her on a good day, rather than in the same way that my mother disowned me for being gay and then it took us a long time to figure out how to have a relationship with each other, but it requires an immense amount of compromise in both of us. I highly encourage people to not disown their parents or disown those who don’t share the same beliefs as them so that you don’t become further trapped in a bubble or echo chamber of what you believe in or feeling your own values reflected in your immediate circle. And while that is a source of safety and comfort, and I do believe that protection is necessary, I also believe in knowing what, quote unquote the other side has to say. And rather than isolate ourselves from them to engage, and it takes an immense amount of patience, or a cocktail in hand or well time to work out right after or before for some endorphins, or I don’t any whatever you need to do for your mental well being. Please do that. But I think to engage is more important than not, especially in this time where we are less than 100 days out from the election. And rather than please don’t follow me, if or I will cancel you if I’d rather us try to lend the generosity and find some common ground and, and and it can be found there even if, like in my mother it it will not seem like that. That can be retained long term or fully applied in the everyday. Maybe some part of it gets through. And her vote for Trump won’t matter in California anyway, so I will, I will assuage myself with that, or my vote will always balance hers out. And we will come there there is the definition of balance in the universe in one family.

Jose:

Daniel, thank you so much for spending time with us and for having a drink with us for showing us your favorite programs that was very special. Plug anything that you need to plug and let our viewers and our listeners know, what are you doing next? You’re like the busiest person in quarantine I think.

Daniel K. Isaac

Thank you for saying that inside of it. I don’t feel that way. But thank you. I’m at www. Daniel K. Isaac.com, that’s I-S-A-A-C. And @DanielKIsaac on Instagram and Twitter. So I’ll be posting whatever is coming up but look out for things on Ma-Yi studios, and there’s five seasons or four and a half seasons of billions if you want to binge 55 episodes, that’s 55 hours of escape with some of your favorite New York theater actors. Amazing guest starring roles. And I also love this show The Other Two that I did on Comedy Central and that first season of that is available to binge as well. So I point to those things and if anyone has Quibi I’ll have a Quibi series coming out in the fall or guesting on one of those but I don’t know who has Quibi but save your free trial for the fall whenever this show comes up.

Diep:

Oh my god, you can explain to Jose what Quibi is because he still does not know.

Jose:

I don’t know I don’t know what a TikTok is. All I know is the President is trying to shut it down. So, those also sound like made up words to me. But you know.

Daniel K. Isaac

Quibi is quick bites, and that just always makes me laugh but quick bites as a TV show. And the same that I’m sure podcasts or audible books are struggling because people aren’t commuting. I think Quibi has massively been hurt by the lack of commutes. But we’ll see if they can rally people to all the stories that they’ve called air and produced because it was an access point that allowed for other storytelling to happen. But, you know, the traditional networks weren’t doing so I’m gonna root for the underdog and see what

Diep:

Wait what’s the Quibi show that you’re doing?

Daniel K. Isaac

It’s called The Expecting. And it is directed by Mary Heron, who directed American

Jose:

Psycho.

Daniel K. Isaac

Yes. Which like I don’t, you know, I’m sure there are many examples to sexism in the industry I can point to and I don’t need to speak for her and it’s not that she’s ever said this, but if I look at someone who directed American Psycho, they should have directed so many other movies that are of that canon and of that cult popularity and blockbuster standard and she has a great resume, but it should be better. And I can, I will stand as a cis male and say that’s sexism and unfair and I had an amazing time working with her. And all the more reason that I would love to support that quick bite show The Expecting directed by Mary Heron, whom I love and geeked out on a theater podcast last minute. So..

Jose:

Are you wearing clothes in that show or is it like Christian Bale in the opening sequence for American Psycho?

Daniel K. Isaac

I’m fully clothed in that show. I am naked in the web series called Mercy Mistress about a Chinese-American dominatrix, which is also a random plug for a web series to throw out.

Diep:

Wow, you wait to the last minute of the show to like plug your BDSM web series?

Daniel K. Isaac

Nudity, it doesn’t bother me and I think sex positivity if you can’t tell is a very important thing I’d love to spread. And so that show is amazing. I only remembered it now because someone with a foot fetish account, re-posted a clip and tagged me and I thought, oh, that I really loved working on that web series. I hope that there’s something else to binge watch during this time, of quarantine.

Jose:

You can have Daniel, all the time, during quarantine. So thank you once again, Daniel. We’ll, either see you on zoom or the theater soon.

Daniel K. Isaac

Perfect. We’ll have another happy hour soon.

Diep:

But we love people baring it all during this time, you know, it makes us feel so close. Like, we’re all friends. We’re all in this event. Together. Even if we’re separate, we are emotionally together.

Jose:

Yeah don’t say that because like if someone hears you, they’re good and like us, cuz you’re probably bears next year.

Diep:

I support you going back to the gym to get ready for Broadway Bares?

Jose:

You want to send me back to the gym? There’s like freakin Covid at the gym. Wait aren’t gyms supposed to open like Monday?

Diep:

Yes it after they’ve been inspected they haven’t had time to inspect all the gyms yet.

Jose:

Can you imagine when they go to see the locker room at like everything basically. Mm hmm. Yeah. Gotta be fat forever.

Diep:

Yeah, you’ve gotten so skinny.

Jose:

That’s because I don’t get hungry when it’s so hot.

Diep:

Yeah, and I don’t get hungry when I’m depressed. So, yes, we’re all getting to our goal weight during quarantine, whether you want to or not,

Jose:

And if this ends, double it.

Diep:

Carbs for days when we’re outside again. Speaking of doing things together, here’s something you can do with other people. Do you want to tell them about how they can join our Patreon?

Jose:

Oh, I thought you meant our sex podcast. But sure. So we though all the support that you give us, and we’d love what you share stuff. And, you know, I mean, we’d love all of you basically, do you see how cool it is? For example, all of you who are patrons of Patreon, get your own credit at the end of the video. Like a movie, and it’s like the coolest like, you know? Yeah, credit sequence of all time. It’s like, Oh my God, oh, that person. Oh my god, that person anyway, like we are the least cool people. And other thing. So you know, like, you can give us a buck, give us five bucks, give us 10 bucks, whatever you want. And we send you goodies every week. And we said you a newsletter and we send you Q&A’s that you don’t get to see or listen to, and we What else do we get? I mean, we know that you don’t really care about what we give you, you know that we’re doing work that means a lot to people like you. Okay? Now it’s not like big bird. No, but I mean, like, we’re doing all this for you. And we want to make all of you proud. And, you know, tell us what you want us to discuss and invite us to your shows all over the country.

Diep:

Yes, that’s been the great thing about doing this podcast with you is like getting to talk about shows like shows in Texas and shows in Oregon. And there’s gonna be even more shows because we’re going to be inside for the foreseeable future. So invite us to all the shows. And I’m really hoping right now actually, like, if someone wants to do a show in a story, a park or some park in Queens, that’s going to take me an hour to get to let me know. I will go. Maybe I’ll write about it.

Jose:

I’ll do my one man version of Evita just for you by the pool.

Diep:

On the fire escape on your fire escape

Jose:

That shit looks like shady like I’m not gonna climb in there. Yeah, so thank you for supporting us and for, you know, let us know what you like, let us know what you don’t like and make your money you know, worth it.

Diep:

And you know, don’t forget we have a website tokentheatrefriends.com we post articles, interviews, reviews, we write a lot we do a lot. I’m very proud of our writing. I think it’s some of the best writing either us have done, yet. And what else? Oh, don’t forget to review and rate the podcast. So it goes up in the iTunes algorithm. And anything else you want to say that people

Jose:

Hydrate, eat.

Diep:

Or go hiking? You know, go hiking and do a play in like the middle the mountains? Yeah, like that sounds fun.

Jose:

Yeah. But have fun. I will see you next week.

Diep:

All right bye.

Jose:

Bye.

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