Every week, culture critics Diep Tran and Jose Solís bring a POC perspective to the performing arts with their Token Theatre Friends podcast and video series. The show can be found on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, and YouTube. You can listen to episodes from the previous version of the podcast here but to get new episodes, you will need to resubscribe to our new podcast feed (look for the all-red logo).
This week, the Friends react to the 2020 MTV Video Music Awards and the sudden death of Black Panther star Chadwick Boseman (who was also a playwright!). Then they discuss their experiences at Here We Are, a series of one-on-one plays produced by Theater for One where an actor performs, just for you! It’s playing until Sept. 24.
Then Shaun Bengson and Abigail Nessen-Bengson, of the musical duo The Bengsons, call in. They’re the duo behind the musicals Hundred Days and The Lucky Ones, and they’ve created a new work about their lives in quarantine called The Keep Going Song. They also appeared on NPR’s Tiny Desk Concert, like NBD. The Bengsons discussed how they’ve managed to create not just new songs but a whole visual album for it, and what white artists can contribute to this racially charged time.
Here are links to the things mentioned in this episode:
- Lady Gaga’s masked performance at the VMAs.
- Deep Azure, the play written by Chadwick Bosement (someone produce it so we can see it!)
- Chadwick Boseman’s last tweet telling us all to vote.
- In the Penal Colony by Miranda Haymon
- The Keep Going Song by the Bengsons, produced by Actors Theatre of Louisville
The episode transcript is below.
Diep:
Hi, this is Diep Tran.
Jose:
And I’m Jose Solis.
Diep:
And we’re your Token Theatre Friends, people who love theater so much that I don’t know about you, Jose, but last night when I was watching the VMAs, I was thinking, how can Broadway do this? How can we get Broadway actors and chorus members to dance and mask dance and sing in masks?
Jose:
Like shows where everyone plays animals. I’m blanking, basically shows about animals, or they can do, someone can do like this. What was it called? Oh, wow, I’m forgetting everything in quarantine, the, Mr. Burns?
Diep:
Oh, yeah. And yeah, Mr. Burns: A Post-Electric Play by Anne Washburn.
Jose:
Yeah, so everyone’s wearing the Simpsons masks so it’s safe. Let’s see what else someone can do like a like an adaptation of The Life Aquatic, that Wes Anderson movie, that they’re scuba divers so everyone gets to wear like scuba diving gear. What else? There’s options.
Diep:
What I really want is for someone—you know how like my the first musical I ever truly loved was Phantom of the Opera. What I really want is for someone to make a themed mask but you know the entire face. Where are my show-themed facemasks?
Jose:
There’s a niche market for ya. So someone else has to design those.
Diep:
What’s been really interesting I’ve noticed about all these people trying to perform together: they have to quarantine together for like two weeks, like Survivor or The Real Housewives, where they’re all stuck in a house together. And so someone on Twitter I think it was Larry Owens of A Strange Loop suggested if Broadway did this they’d have to take a Marriott, just turned it into like a theater hotel where you sign a contract and you can’t see anyone you love. It’s just your show people for like a year.
Jose:
That’s like fun a little bit right? They can go quarantine in Patti LuPone’s basement.
Diep:
The entire cast of Company should go quarantine in Patti LuPone’s basement and then do Company.
Jose:
I’m sure that’s the point Patti would turn into Saw. Saw the Musical starring Patti LuPone.
Diep:
I never saw that. But like talking about someone wearing a mask—
Jose:
You never saw Saw?
Diep:
I don’t watch horror movies.
Jose:
Yeah, that was not even horror, it’s just gross. Yeah, yeah.
Diep:
Wouldn’t that’d be fun like you know Freddy Krueger, the musical and that’d be a great way to wear a mask. Well just, think of ways you can creatively incorporate mask into shows.
Jose:
I mean, they can just also go back into the Greek theater and everyone wore a mask.
Diep:
Oh, yeah.
Jose:
Yeah.
Diep:
Who needs to emote anymore? You know, it’s like, the masks shows my feelings.
Jose:
Yeah. But then obviously, like, all the awards and stuff, oh they’re wearing masks, how are we going to nominate their acting? They would find a way to like, I don’t know, make it hard for people, for this to work because everyone just wants everything to go back like it was. That’s not gonna happen, right?
Diep:
Ah, not really. But the interesting thing about the VMAs was it kind of showed me how the Tonys can do performances like, without having to be in front of a live audience and I hope that you know, that producers are taking some inspiration, and renting some soundstages or fun New York City locations and quarantining people so they can sing and dance for us and fancy costumes at home.
Jose:
As usual, you’re expecting way too much!
Diep:
I just miss production value so much.
Jose:
Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, but yeah, that’s never going to happen. I mean, you’re asking the same people who refuse to give women and BIPOC playwrights Tonys for best play.
Diep:
Hey I’m still hoping for Jeremy O. Harris I will carry that torch. But what are we talking, what’s on the actual show today Jose?
Jose:
We saw shows actually. Yeah, we experienced some shows this week so we are going to be talking about an experience at Theater for One which is exactly that, Theater for One, which was interesting. Yeah. So we’ll get to that in a little bit. And our guests today are the Bengsons, a married couple who you know for their lovely music and shows like Hundred Days and The Lucky Ones. They currently have a show at the Actors Theatre of Louisville called The Keep Going Song, we talked to them for a while but they were in the woods, which is a very, you know, it could be also a horror musical right? But no with them, it’s always gonna be a lovely, beautiful musical with a happy ending. So we’re gonna get to that in a little bit. What else is going on?
Diep:
I think last week was a really hard week for a lot people including us, and you can, I feel like you can kind of hear that today just because I think both me and Jose are pretty low energy at the moment. Because because last week, Jacob Blake, a black man, in Kenosha, WI was shot seven times for no reason in the back by police, which then led to more protests as has been happening nationwide since June. And then the RNC was happening, the Republican National Conventions slash you know, fascist dictator party was also happening at the same time. And then at the end of that week, Chadwick Boseman died, which it was just kind of the cherry on top of this really shitty sundae. 2020 can just, you know, go in the trash, it’s like we’re done. We’re done.
Jose:
Yeah.
Diep:
Like I was on Twitter on Saturday night when that news broke and you could just see like the shockwaves going through people? How is he dead? He’s only 43 years old. Oh my god, he did so much. Oh my god, he had cancer while filming Black Panther and Da 5 Blood and and all of his other amazing films the last four years. I think it just really shocked a lot of people because it was on top of all this really terrible, terrible stuff that’s been happening to Black men, Black people around the country.
Jose:
Did you see that production of In the Penal Colony by Miranda Hayman last year?
Diep:
No.
Jose:
I was thinking about that a lot, because she took this text by Kafka, and she adapted it into a play that pretty much showed what we saw last, what we saw last week. How in this country it’s almost like there’s two like paths for Black men specifically follow. One of them is the path that Republicans seem to want the most, which is to put them in prison. Right. And the other path is the one that liberals are, don’t seem to see, but that is the problem, which is like this, you know, they become a heroes and they become like, you know, celebrities and like sports players and like, actors and like, good people, right? So this country only gives Black men those two choices. They’re either bad people who go to prison or perfect people who go to, you know, who have to be perfect the whole time and no one can be perfect at all times. We see white men especially are almost never pefect. And yet, they don’t have to deal with, like binaries. And I was thinking so much about that production because it really struck me in how it’s almost like, not almost like, this country has to give Black men the opportunity to just be. You know, it’s either one or the other. And it’s such a ridiculous thing that the rest of us perpetuate, enforced, and enable. And, I mean, I wish everyone could have seen the production because it speaks to this moment in almost like, you know, like, so eerie. It’s really depressing. And it’s so funny that you said we’re low energy cuz I’ve never had more caffeine than today. And yet, I can’t seem to pick myself up because it’s, I don’t know, it’s really it’s too much.
Diep:
Yeah, it’s it’s, Chadwick Boseman. What he Died it, it made me think of that line in Hamilton of like, “why do you write like you’re running out of time?” And it was because, like in that musical, he knew he had very limited, he was living on borrowed time, and he had something he really needed to do, which was to create positive powerful representations of Black men and Black people in the world that were free of stereotypes, that people could be proud of and can see themselves in. And I think if you look at his filmography, like he played Jackie Robinson, and he also played, he was a Black Panther and he inspired people like all over the world. And he also played James Brown and he and his final film is going to be opposite Viola Davis, Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom. And so you could see like this very intentional choice of saying I’m not going to take any role that doesn’t better the community, that doesn’t put something great out into the world. And, and what was I feel like really tragic is the fact that he died really young, at the peak of his career but also, but also the fact that the industry—he had to keep it secret, otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to work because the industry, when you’re a person of color, like you said, like you have to be perfect and you have to be strong and any sign of weakness is a sign that you’re unhireable.
Jose:
Even if it’s ilnnes, and it’s like, you know, that Hamilton thing was very true about Hamilton. It’s very true about Chadwick, but also it’s very true about I believe, all Black men in America, like they’re running out of time because this country is killing them for fun. Like with no purpose just because they can. Yeah, so yeah, I don’t even know if we have any, I have anything to say other than I’m really heartbroken this weekend. I don’t know.
Diep:
Do you ever feel like, with Chadwick Boseman he was also very much—that thing that people of color do which is like you can’t just do things for yourself, you got to do things for the betterment of the community. And there’s always something very beautiful about that. But there’s also something very tragic about it and that even if you’re sick, you still have to fight. Even when John Lewis was battling cancer, like he was still fighting. And I think, I think maybe what we’re feeling right now and what you know, Black people are feeling right now and so many other people people are feeling that, that just general exhaustion of I can’t ever do things for myself, why does it always have to be in service of for for other people?
Jose:
Yeah, it’s like yeah, it’s uh, even, you know, Megan thee Stallion was shot by her partner, right? And she chose not to call the cops because she knew that they would probably kill him. So can you imagine? I mean, I can’t. Even in pain even when someone, even when someone shoots you, you’re thinking, “I was shot. But the person who shot me who shot me right here can be killed because of who they are.” I don’t know. This country is like, Jesus Christ. Well, that’s not gonna be fun for our listeners. *laughs*
Diep:
*laughs* I mean, we always try to be honest with all of you about what we’re feeling. And this is and these are the feelings right now. That was quite, it was quite beautiful that ABC aired Black Panther without any commercials and like the ratings were actually quite high.
Jose:
Oh they were?
Diep:
Yeah. Did you know that Chadwick Boseman was a playwright in Chicago before he decided to become a Hollywood actor?
Jose:
No,
Diep:
Yes. His play was actually quite good. What was it? Okay. And it was produced in Chicago in 2005, Congo Square Theatre Company, and it was called Deep Azure. And his artistic statement said, quote, “it’s an experiment to push the boundaries of the genre of hip hop theatre, which was itself pushing the boundaries of theater. Deep Azure is, in some ways, a fusion and progression of my previous plays as well as a fusion of cultural expression spanning distances and time periods.”
Jose:
Maybe someone will produce that at some point right now?
Diep:
That would be great, right?
Jose:
It’s also that thing like why are we celebrating? You know, why do people have to die before they’re celebrated? It’s like, I don’t know.
Diep:
I know. Why didn’t he get the Oscar for Black Panther? You know?
Jose:
You’re asking from the Oscars what you’re asking from the Tonys. It sounds corny, but you know, sometimes heroes are actually superheroes in the movies and they’re even more heroic in person. Ah sorry, in real life, and I was just heartbroken seeing all the pictures of all the kids. You know, Black kids, white kids, all kids, not only Black kids. Mourning, that I know their superhero died, but also kids, our superhero died, we’re mourning with you.
Diep:
Yeah, we’re feeling it. Go watch Black Panther, go watch more of his movies, someone produce his plays and make a better industry so that other Black actors, actors of color don’t have to work as hard.
Jose:
Yeah, let’s make a better world and fucking vote for Joe Biden if you can. The option of not voting or voting for the other person? Selfish as fuck, actually evil.
Diep:
Yep. Chadwick Boseman’s final tweet was vote.
Jose:
For real?
Diep:
Yeah, he tweeted a photo of him with Kamala Harris.
Jose:
Yeah. If people don’t learn from that. Please, meteor coming, eradicate us like you did with the dinosaurs.
Diep:
The meteor is coming a day before the election. That’s who I’m voting for!
Jose:
*chuckles* Okay, that was quite a. Yeah. But we would love to hear from you. If you’re listening to this. And if you want to grieve with us, this is a time for all of us to be grieving and mourning and you know, it’s a time precisely to not do what white supremacy tells us, which is to separate our feelings and our politics and our spiritual beliefs and our passion from who we are. We can, we are one, we are human beings and it’s time that we stop doing that. Mourn with us. Yeah.
Diep:
And to quote Theater for One, like we are here, we are here now together, which is actually the theme of the series of plays that they are producing until Sept. 24. Did you ever see the actual Theater for One, like the little pop-up installation they do?
Jose:
Where was it?
Diep:
I saw it when it was down in like Lower Manhattan.
Jose:
I’ve seen the little tiny tiny theater but I don’t think I ever saw Theater for One.
Diep:
Yeah, I saw it and it’s like this little box where, a little very nicely decorated box with a curtain inside. Where you audience go through one door and the actor goes through another door. And the actor performs a monologue just for you. And then it’s like speed dating where you see like five plays in a row and it’s like a different actor comes in each time. But at the end you don’t get to pick who you want to, you know, go home with.
Jose:
*laughs* Or to the bars.
Diep:
And this experience that Jose and I both did virtually is Theater for One, where it’s kind of like me and Jose right now doing a podcast together where I can’t see myself I just see Jose and Jose is talking at me or the actor’s are talking at you.
Jose:
Yeah, except we don’t know how to act.
Diep:
We do not know how to act.
Jose:
No Meryls here. No Chadwicks here. I saw Nikkole Salter. Did you see that one?
Diep:
No.
Jose:
I have never ever felt older than when I figured out that I did the whole thing wrong. And I’m supposed to apparently see more than, I was supposed to see four plays and I ended up only ever see one. I was lost in the thing, which is very appropriate, because, you know, like, maybe they were trying to recreate what happens when the MTA delays you and your subway’s like half hour late and you miss the curtain. And then like you go to see like the second act or whatever.
Diep:
Whiterly Negotations by Lydia R. Diamond.
Jose:
Yes, that’s what I saw. And Nikkole Salter was the actor. Ah, and it was you know, she was fantastic and it was so interesting. One of the most compelling things about this was that they let us know in advance that we don’t have the option to turn the camera off, or sound off. So the actor is aware of this. Do we know what it looks like for them? Do they get a little like Brady Bunch grid, where they can see the entire audience?
Diep:
Oh, no, you were the only audience.
Jose:
I was the only the only audience?! Oh my god. So that means that that means I missed-oh God actors, the other three actors whose work I missed, I am so sorry. I just couldn’t figure out how to navigate that lobby. Oh my god. I sound like a super super super super super super super old person. Or like a tourist. No I don’t want to be ageiest, I sound like any person who easily gets lost which I never do and I got so lost in that digital maze. Remember where they make you ike introduce yourself and like mingle with the people in the lobby?
Diep:
Yeah, yeah, the virtual lobby was basically a giant chat room which I like, a very nice looking chat room.
Jose:
With floating like letter, words, right? And I was there for so long that I didn’t realize that I was late for my play and I never knew how to access the play that I was supposed to go to. So it was like being you know, what, if New World Stages had tiny plays, and you have to go like from one to one to one to one, because it’s kind of like a maze. Almost like that. Like I missed everything cuz I didn’t know where I was supposed to be.
Diep:
Wait. I thought they just ushered you into the, turned you onto the play automatically when it was your time to go in, you could just hang out in the lobby until they gave you to the actor.
Jose:
The cloud just took me to one.
Diep:
Yeah, it’s fine. I did two, because I asked to do two.
Jose:
Yeah, I’m even more confused now.
Diep:
We’re all just learning it together. I can’t believe you. When you heard Theater for One. What made you think that, oh, it’s gonna be me and a bunch of other grids?
Jose:
Because it’s, I assume it’s going to be about the costs and all of that because it is commercial theater right, after all. So I assume that it’s going to be Theater for One because they’re telling me it’s for one, because I’m one-on-one. But then obviously, they’re trying to cut the costs. And they’re trying to be like, efficient and all of that. So I assumed that it was just me seeing the person but then the opposite side of the actor, was going to be like a whole grid where they’re seeing all of those squares. Now even I feel even worse. Actually, I don’t ’cause I behaved. Oh my god, did I smoke?
Diep:
Were you looking at the phone?
Jose:
Oh my god, I don’t think so. Because I never do that at the theater. So I probably wasn’t, and if I, oh God, I don’t remember. Now I feel bad. I probably didn’t. But I did assume that and I was like, I remember sitting there, you know, watching the actor, she was so great. And I was thinking, is she seeing like a grid, where am I on the grid? Like my mind just like wandered for a little bit.
Diep:
She was just looking at you the entire time.
Jose:
God bless her.
Diep:
I know cuz I saw two. I saw Regina Taylor’s play Vote, which she performed herself. And it was funny, like I came in and I saw her sitting at her window and I was like, Hi. And she waved back and said hi too. So I’m like, I knew it! You can see me!
Jose:
Oh my God. It’s amazing.
Diep:
But it really did, what this whole like virtual theater thing has been reminding me of is like, why I go to live theater. The thing about Theater for One that’s really interesting in this virtual version was the fact that it made me realize that the reason I love theater, one of the reasons, is that it makes me accountable to people in front of me. I cannot do anything else. I can’t look at my phone. I can’t listen to a podcast, I have to, I have to stay focused in this moment and watch the thing in front of me. Which you know, as someone who grew up on the internet, it’s very hard for me to have attention, to have like attention spans and and what I really love about Theater for One and what I hope other people will continue to do is make the audience accountable. Like make sure they, the actors can see us and we know the actors can see us. So that we know that our presence there matters and our focus and attention matters.
Jose:
That’s so insightful because it shouldn’t be like that just with theater, like we should be present with anyone. We should be present when we’re talking to someone on the phone, we should be present when we’re freaking reading a book. And like watching a movie or watching TV. And yet it seems like we can’t be still so, especially during quarantine where I find it hard to like even eat if I’m not like, you know, I have to eat and then like have my phone and then I’m glued to something in my computer and then I probably have my TV on also, Taylor Swift is playing on my Alexa. So it’s this like sensory overload. And I wonder if like, in many ways, we’re just like, you know, we’re trying to numb ourselves from this fucking mess that we’re in.
Diep:
Mm hmm. Right. Did you feel really like, I felt very present. In the same way that I was present for the tarot readings that we both did, where we’re like, I know they’re looking at me, I know my presence is important and my acknowledgement of what they’re saying is important. And so I can’t look at anything else.
Jose:
Right. Well, since I assumed wrongly, like I was very chill, I’m pretty sure I didn’t do anything bad. But I was, it was a very hard weekend for me when I saw that. I know that I appreciate it just like 10 minutes. They were only 10 minutes. I don’t think we’ve said that, right.
Diep:
Oh, yeah, only 10 minutes.
Jose:
I appreciate the 10 minute break from reality. Mm hmm.
Diep:
Yeah, I could have done like a whole bunch. I would have done the entire thing. I think it’s like eight plays or something. And they’re all by people of color. Yes, yes. I’m like I’ll go back.
Jose:
Yeah, it was Oh, wow. Oh god, what a week? What a week, Lemon? It’s only? Nope. I don’t even remember my 30 Rock jokes anymore. What a week! It’s Tuesday, Lemon.
Diep:
You’ve said that to me before.
Jose:
It is Tuesday, Lemon. Well, it’s actually Monday, Lemon, so I’m saying that to myself today.
Diep:
It’s only Monday. Even though it’s coming on Thursday. It’s only Monday in our time and by Thursday something something really shitty will have happened. And that is why sometimes we seem like we’re maybe like seven days late to whatever it is that you all are thinking about.
Jose:
Yeah, however, we have aged seven decades during those seven days that happens. Fear not. Why don’t we talk about something happy and let’s go talk about the Bengson?
Diep:
Yeah, I had fun at Theater for One. Regina Taylor told me to vote, to go and wear my mask and go vote and I’m gonna do that. I signed up to be a poll worker on election day.
Jose:
Go you? I love it.
Diep:
Regina Taylor’s telling you to do something, you go do it. Go vote.
Jose:
Now we’re gonna go talk to Abigail and Shaun Bengson’s who you know as the Bengsons and they have a new show at the Actors Theatre of Louisville called Keep Going Song and as in all their work, it’s full with hope, and lovely music, and joy and personal anecdotes about their lives. And the woods. So let’s go talk to them right now.
Diep:
Welcome Shaun and Abigail Bengson of the Bengsons. Thank you for joining us. And we understand you have released what the kids now call a visual album.
Abigail Bengson:
Is that what it is!?
Shaun Bengson:
I guess you’re right.
Abigail Bengson:
Oh, we’re so much more like Beyonce than I had ever dreamed. Thank you for bringing that reality home to us today. Yeah, we made something. We made it with the Actors Theatre of Louisville, it’s called The Keep Going Song. And it’s a 55-minute sort of piece that you can stream and watch. And then we also released the audio of most of it that you can just listen to. That happened!
Diep:
So from the beginning of the video, you sing that you were in Louisville and then you went to Dayton, Ohio where Sean’s parents live because of COVID. And so were you already in Louisville, just working on something and then it morphed into this, The Keep Going Song?
Shaun Bengson:
Yeah, we were, we were working on this wonderful play by Jeff Augustin for the Humana Festival. And we had our our first preview, during which half of the audience was a high school group where they hadn’t, like the teachers hadn’t vetted the show. And so the the teachers halfway through the show brother got all of the high school students up and walked them all out of the room. And our one performance the next day it was all canceled. So we we packed our boy up, we were all living there downtown, and my folks are in dayton just a couple hours away. And so we went, you know, and we really did think it was gonna take like, you know, a week or two before they got it all sorted out and things got going again, and then we were there for about six months.
Jose:
What’s it like to have complete strangers come up to you, probably know details about your life because like, you write about your love story so beautifully, and are people like, how dare you did this? Or like, why didn’t you go into his date with him? Or, you know, that kind of thing?
Abigail Bengson:
Well, I mean, we asked for it, right? I mean, we we made the choice and we really walked backwards into it. When we started writing our first show that was autobiographical, you know, we really tried to, we made it about other characters and we set it in the 40s. And we did all this distancing work. And then a lot of collaborators that we really, really trust and respect said it wasn’t very good. You know, it was good. But like there was something inherently untrue about it. And that that was, that was true.
Shaun Bengson:
Yeah, it was sort of abundantly clear to everyone that we had kind of created these like sham versions of ourselves. You know, and so, and then with that show, with Hundred Days, each version of it was kind of just about trying to break down the walls that we had built between us sort of to protect ourselves, between us and the story. And I think the other thing that was really hard about it too is, I think, part of the reason we fictionalized that at the beginning as well is, it was hard to not feel like we were asking something that was self indulgent, you know, or like navel gazing and, and so it really took our collaborators saying like, “no like, the other way to look at that is the possibility of generosity, you know?” And so that’s really been what we’ve been trying to move towards and writing about our life or singing about our life is thinking about, like, what is the the generous thing that I could share? And it’s still like, you know, it’s a tricky line to walk. Yeah. But yeah, we really walked into it into doing things about us really backwards.
Abigail Bengson:
We’re both pretty shy, we’re both very introverted. We just have this weird music habit that sort of pushes against our personalities. So, um, it really wasn’t what we expected to be making, but because the art that we are most interested in is the most sort of vulnerable possible. Now I see it makes sense that that’s what we do, you know, or try to do.
Diep:
So, Jose and I are both big Taylor Swift fans. And so we’re both listening to her folklore album, which she created in quarantine and so, is this kind of like your I’m in the woods album, and I’m going to make something that inspires me during this time?
Abigail Bengson:
Wow, first Beyonce now, Taylor! I’ve never I mean, amazing comparisons. I feel like if Taylor had known we were going to drop our album when we did, she probably would have wanted to coordinate with us a little bit more, you know, because they are so similar. We just watched it. We watched it for the first time and listened to the album for the first time. And it is, I am so grateful that we have this artifact, you know, of this moment that we, and you can see us freaking working through it. Like we were really so scared, right? From the beginning of this thing and trying to create it at that time and what a gift to be asked to create and sort of forced to make stuff at that time, when we were feeling between, you know, the dual public health crises of COVID and systemic racism, we were like, don’t know what to say. We should probably shut the fuck up for a very long time, you know, which is real. It was just like, I don’t know what to make or how to make or how to begin and, and also, I know that I can’t heal without making. So those things being true at the same time and wanting to offer, what we were really going through without pretending we had reached any conclusions or knew. And to be honest, we didn’t know what we were doing and to make a piece that felt really sort of aggressively courting anti-perfectionism. Like, to watch us stumble and make it up and try and try a different thing and to try to build that into the piece itself felt, was really good for us and personally good. And watching it now, I’m like, oh wow right, like the warts and all there we are trying, you know? And I I’m glad for that. That’s the thing I’m proud of that you can see us really trying.
Jose:
The two of you who create something. I mean, is there a moment where the two of you were like, had to, you know, meet at the same time and be like, okay like sure let’s do this. Or was it just like different like paths to get there cuz I don’t want to anything. I don’t know how to do anything, right now.
Shaun Bengson:
It was another kind of walking backwards into it kind of thing, where this all started from Actors Theatre of Louisville asking us to make something for their, for their like online season. And they said it could really be anything at all that we want. And so we’d also been, you know, we have all these sort of this backlog of songs that we’d been wanting to, you know, just get to develop further and things. But it was like when we set off, first it was just in the context of COVID where I did sort of understand the role for my voice a little more. And then like, as we were working on it, you know, everything erupted with Breonna Taylor and the whole beautiful movement and it did…
Abigail Bengson:
And working in, with people, in Louisville, under leadership of the incredible Robert Barry Fleming. It was humbling and we were just trying to…well, part of it was like they gave us permission. We missed deadlines, and then more deadlines and then more deadlines, because we were like, we’re making a thing and we’re trying to reach hearts in isolation because of COVID and then we’re like, “wait actually it’s this! No, actually it’s this because…” And we had to sort of move at the speed of spirit, of personal transformation right? Because I would feel like okay this is what I want to sing about and then another day would pass, and I feel like we were, so many, we were all there of another day would go and you go, that was one day? The world has changed so much again. How could it be? They were so kind to us, that we would say like, “it’s still not done in fact, we were two-thirds done and now it’s not begun!”
Shaun Bengson:
We did a lot of things where we make a certain amount down the road and then scrap it all.
Abigail Bengson:
What are we doing, you know? What is amazing, I’d say about making things with your, the person with whom you are the most honest, is you can’t hide, you can’t hide. Do you really, the way that I am in my art is the way that I want to be with him. Because it is the way that I am with him, so it’s an attempt at bringing my, my deepest self, you know, which is very exposing, and I’m sure for some people, like alright, you can put some of that away. But, um, yeah, that’s the nature of what we do.
Shaun Bengson:
I do think like one of the core threads of our work, like the core thing that we’re trying to investigate is doubt and uncertainty, you know, and trying to live in that space of not knowing. Which is, I feel like so much of my life is just like, utter confusion. And so, in the end, it was just like allowing ourselves to still lean into those points and not trying to provide answers, but just to live in our questions and that is like what working on it together, yeah, there is no lying like Abigail can see in my face immediately if I try to put on something.
Jose:
Okay you’re gonna make me cry. I’m like so sensitive today and I’m like, this is so romantic.
Abigail Bengson:
Oh honey, you let them flow. Yes, you’re in the right company.
Jose:
I can’t. I wish I could. That is so cute. Sorry. I don’t even know what I was gonna say. Oh my god. I’ve always, I wonder if you ever invisioned, you know, like, someone you know, playing versions of you in a movie or something, like who would be your dream cast?
Abigail Bengson:
You two would be amazing!
Jose:
We don’t know how to sing.
Diep:
We’re not actually married! A lot of people think we’re attached at the hip.
Abigail Bengson:
Maybe at the hip but nowhere else right? I mean, are you kidding me that’s like the most exciting thing that started to happen with our first show Hundred Days right? It got licensed and it’s starting to be performed in, well it was and everything started to get canceled. But it was everywhere and we got to write this huge mission statement at the front of it that was like, please, may this be a queer love story, may this be people who don’t look like us. Put three of us on and make it a poly story, like find a way! It’s so very moving to me to take it outside, let it live outside of our bodies, you know, my gosh, and who would play us you want it to be like an every woman. So your Halle Berry’s, you know, just people who like everyone can relate to, that’s who I feel like is most like me. If there’s every movie about any of this, which is incredibly has become possible, but like who the hell knows, right? Like we’re in that moment. I just hope it’s like someone who, who isn’t afraid to sing in an ugly way.
Diep:
I can do a banshee screen. I’ll do it. Alright. Since Abigail, you brought this up earlier about like this question of what can I do right now especially, you know, as white people and for me like I’m Asian, which is like very white-adjacent most of the time. What do you think white people should be doing? Or white artists in particular?
Abigail Bengson:
That’s the question of every single day. I think part of it is to be I mean, you and I might have different answers. Part of it for me is to be asking that question actively every day and being honest that I don’t know. Right? Just everyday being like, when I thought I knew, I knew even less than I do now. So let’s look, let’s investigate. Let’s get open. Let’s listen. Let’s ask again, ask again, and then ask another time over and over and do your homework by yourself, my God. And I am learning about that. We’re talking to a lot of other white artists about this question and what that looks like. But it’s an incredible gift we’ve been handed, to be so humbled. You know, it’s an incredible gift, to be reminded of something that should have been as active in our minds as it is today. And it should have always been, and it was for so many of our siblings, and to be given the chance to be told how wrong we’ve been, is a gift, you know? And then we get to keep making things, what a gift. So I don’t know, man, the answer is I don’t know what we should be doing. And I think we should, for me personally, it’s about creating without the hierarchy of pretending I know.
Shaun Bengson:
Yeah, no, we really have this, like every creative process has really been coming from this question. And I do think like part of it at the, at its first level is like if we’re offered a gig, is this actually a gig I should be taking, you know. Snd like, if I’ve already got, you know, three or four other things going in particular, you know, do I also need this? And I think we’ve been trying to think a lot about, you know, who are the BIPOC voices on the producing side, too. And how can we help support them in their missions—whether through creating something or just trying to, you know, bring whatever sort of our very small, little pinhole of public light that we could shine. And just really like thinking about it within the art, just trying to recognize what about where we are in our career and what about my viewpoint stems from my whiteness, you know. And so it has been tricky to also find the line. We’ve been really doing a lot of stabs and trying to share with our collaborators, both our white collaborators and BIPOC collaborators and trying to find the line between, what is me being generous and open about trying to reckon with my whiteness? I feel like the the example that we’ve been thinking of is like the experience of a Jewish person coming in and watching a Holocaust show. Maybe that Jewish person would like some warning before watching a Holocaust show. And so also trying to think about like, if I am talking about my whiteness and some of the damage that my community is caused, how much of that is for me to process on my own? And how much of that is for me to try to speak about publicly? And what impact does it have on the people who are with us, or watching or listening, who are from different backgrounds? I really don’t have any answers. We’re really just actively stumbling through. And it was like, when this all went down, we really did reckon for a long time about whether it was even good for us to be making art or us to be trying to put anything into the world. And is that contributing and generous, or is it taking up space.
Abigail Bengson:
And it’s both. Yeah, that’s the truth. Thank you for asking. Ask me again. Ask me again tomorrow. And I’ll ask myself again and we’ll ask each other keep asking,
Jose:
Since you say that your art is those two things. Is there art specifically by BIPOC artists that has led you to have empathy and like enter those people’s minds and wear their shoes?
Shaun Bengson:
The show we were working at Louisville is by Jeff Augustine, who’s a Haitian-American and it was specifically about the experience of you know, it’s like loosely autobiographical about his journey with his father, both being Haitian-American men, separated by 30 years and their experience of finding their way in the world and it’s just a beautiful play, which is very much living with this question of what it meant to walk through their lives, you know, in the bodies that they had. And it was also being at Louisville was so extraordinary to because it was one of the most genuinely diverse and inclusive theatre spaces we’ve ever been in. You know, I feel like one of the most uncomfortable experiences of being a New York theater artists is the first day of rehearsal when the theater staff comes into the room, you know, and it’ll be 80 people and 75 of them will be white. And often like the five people of color, usually four of them, are in the cast. And it was so amazing being in Louisville and that was my first time of that not being the case. And so and I feel like we were also trying to deal with it in the room. Abigail and I were performing on stage and so there are two actors who were both Black and us were both white and just trying to work out as a team. How us being there was supporting their voice and supporting their story, without taking away from it. So I think it was a real gift to us being in that process and already I feel like our brains are already primed a little bit heading in and we’ve also just been reading a lot whatever we can find. I’ve been loving Ibram X. Kendi’s books. And Ta-Nehisi Coates and just trying to read everything we can.
Jose:
How can you read like, I can’t concentrate on any book. On any fiction. Like all I was doing at first, I wore this for you, my Animal Crossing. It was the only thing I could focus on.
Shaun Bengson:
I was just I had my birthday last month and I got a Switch, whoo!! Abigail got me one.
Jose:
I’ll send you my friend code.
Diep:
You all can make a musical together on Animal Crossing!
Abigail Bengson:
Yes!!
Jose:
I’ll be the audience.
Abigail Bengson:
I feel like my brain is has had to rewire itself like six times in the last six months. I totally relate to reading feeling really hard. Yeah, but nerd stuff will always pull you through. Get on that game.
Diep:
So the last thing I saw you two and what was The Lucky Ones which was about a traumatic thing that happened in Abigail’s family. And I was listening to The Keep Going Song and I just found it so comforting because the two of you were talking about, trying to work through uncertainty. And I like the fact that there’s not a resolution to the album. It just ends. I feel like you can have a part two after you figure out how to get through this. Like, you’ll give us a part two with the answers. But for now I’m finding it, for the first time I like just being in one place, and just accepting the fact that I don’t know is comforting. And so like, I’m just wondering, because you’ve both been through some traumatic hard times in your own lives. What kind of tools have you built that you’re using now that you can maybe give to me.
Abigail Bengson:
I’ll show you mine and you show me yours okay? Wow. Yeah, I mean for me, making things and singing is a huge, huge part of my being okay. Or if not being okay, sitting in the not-okay-ness in a way that doesn’t make it worse. Do you know what I’m trying to say? So there’s that and then it was a real gift to be in Dayton when we were, because we started a little garden with our little boy.
Diep:
And a trampoline.
Abigail Bengson:
And we got a trampoline! And we started a little garden and, and gosh, it’s like I remember when I was um, I used to years ago watch joggers run by and I would make fun of them in my head. I’d be like, what are you running from, you know? And then I became a jogger and it took over everything about my identity I just like wanting to run all the time because it made me feel good. And I feel that a little bit that way about a lot of other self-care practices that I’ve kind of rejected in the past. I think because on some level I was afraid of them and now I’m coming to. So trying to meditate in a way, in whatever that means to me. Praying in my own strange, agnostic, atheistic, paganistic Jew-esque way that I have. And being in the world, just being in the dirt and in the trees, which I was raised in, but then turned from in a certain way, and then coming home to now, which is hard but good. And then like, just to get real when the shit’s bad. I think about liquid, so take a shower, drink some water. Hydrate your spirit, get some liquid on you and in you and it will help.
Diep:
I thought you meant alcohol when you said liquid.
Jose:
I thought that’s where you were going also.
Abigail Bengson:
That’s next, that’s for when you need to cry, get get some liquor in you and that’ll help you get weeping if you need to. But if you need to stop, take a shower.
Jose:
*laughing* Is there one thing that on March 13 you were like, how am I gonna live without this? And now you’re like, I don’t miss that thing at all anymore.
Shaun Bengson:
Yes, we used to. We used to go to a coffee shop every single morning like no matter where we were in the world, you know, and like buy an $8 latte. And I was so heartbroken about that. It was really like the whole structure of our day was built around this experience. And it was also like, having a young child, you know, like having a reason to get out of the house right away, you know, is so important for the spirit and it was really weirdly hard to figure that part out but we really have I mean, I’ll be excited to get to go to a cafe again when that stuff opens up. But we really have like, now figured out a new groove with our boy and with our life, which I think is ultimately not only saving us hundreds of dollars a month. *chuckles.*
Abigail Bengson:
What were we thinking? Where did we think that money was coming from? It’s like, you know how New York like you have 1,000 choices every second, which is an astonishing thing to feel. And there’s so much you can do even when you’re totally broke. I feel you know there’s like options options options and with that for me, it turns out, comes panic panic panic. Am I am living? Am I doing? Am I achieving? And to just say, to be like sit down stop, you know? Stop. It was incredible and and really uncomfortable and now I’m really like into it. I’m like okay, when I’m freaking out, when it feels urgent when the world’s in emergency again, what if it’s not? What if it’s not in in my body? Like what if I stop for a minute and take a breath, and be active and responsive, but not reactive all the time. And stop that like circuit cycle that I’ve been on. Singing for me has short circuited and allowed me to be In the moment, right, so how do I get there now? And I don’t know, but it’s nice. I miss the zoo with my little one. And I miss the carousel. There are things that he misses that I miss on his behalf. But for me, the removal of so many possibilities has refocused. It’s something to grieve, but it’s also refocused me in a way. I don’t know, what about you guys? I’m feeling overwhelmed by talking about myself!
Jose:
No one ever asks us the question, so we don’t, I don’t know.
Diep:
Yeah, I’ve also started gardening. I mean, I never thought I would like it, because I never had time to maintain or to beautify my own living space. And I didn’t think it was necessary because I’m never in my space.
Abigail Bengson:
I thought it was kind of dumb. And that’s how I feel. And now you’re like, this plant is my spirit. And if I take care of it, it’s gonna take care of me. Yeah.
Diep:
It’s like, I can’t control anything else in my life. But you know, if I can keep this thing alive, then I feel like I’ve accomplished something at least today.
Abigail Bengson:
And isn’t that like the whole, this whole moment? That’s the whole moment is like, Can I, I feel, especially in theater, or like, if I can keep this little seed alive, you know, and plant it and let it become something we haven’t seen before. So that when things reopen, we’re not going back to the same old bullshit. But something new is growing. We will have, won’t that be extraordinary? Won’t that be amazing? Won’t that have been? So I feel like watching the plant, it’s like, oh, look they’re doing, they just do it every day. They’re just like me. I’m a seed, I’m doing my thing.
Shaun Bengson:
That’s absolutely been what’s gotten me through is being outside as much as possible. And that’s been the crazy privilege of first getting to be in Dayton and now we’re in Vermont. And we’re Abigail’s home. It’s getting to be outside and outside with our boy and especially at the beginning, we found like the one creek in Dayton that the other people hadn’t found, you know, like all the others were slammed, we found like the one you had to like walk back in the woods to and it was just like, it was just really, really extraordinary. And I feel like that was the start of my feeling like I could get through this is, finding that little bit of water and, what a rare privilege, you know that our work can follow us where we are and that we’re we’re healthy, you know, and not yet destitute.
Abigail Bengson:
Not yet!
Shaun Bengson:
We’re burning through it.
Abigail Bengson:
Some of it’s amazing, right? Like we’re trying to compose music, choral music that can be sung over Zoom in groups, like music that works with delay and works with distance rather than being interrupted by it. Like we’re trying to create in a way that that embraces what is happening. And not push against it and that feels really, really good. That was part of The Keep Going Song idea was to not try to make something that was trying to look like a theater piece, or trying to look like a movie, you know? Make something that just was what we could do on our iPhones right now. You know?
Shaun Bengson:
And I feel like the amazing thing about this moment too is that so much about the American theatre model I feel like was already really profoundly broken. And I feel like what a hard sad, but maybe also good thing, that have to break it entirely. And like maybe we can put it back together better. All of our structures were designed for like white men with wives, you know, so like, just also being any sort of caretaker or caregiver or like having any sort of life outside the theater just like doesn’t—
Abigail Bengson:
Or not being independently wealthy—
Shaun Bengson:
Not being independently wealthy, you know, it’s like, it was just, it’s a really messed up, flawed system. So I really do hope that, you know, we’re trying like, that is the nice thing with being a creator on some of the projects, is we do have a little bit more power, about how the project will work and how the, you know, the rehearsals and tech. And we have a little bit of control over how things work out financially. And like maybe we can try to make it actually work better.
Abigail Bengson:
Yeah. And like that was part of it too, was when the cycle of the Broadway cycle and all that hooha just freaking stopped. It also made me unclench this part of me that was barreling toward that, just feeling like I need my fuckin Tony, you know, which isn’t even, it’s not what I’m about. It’s not what I make. It’s not who I am, you know? And I think I imagined that I was like some kind of Trojan horse. Like I was gonna like, like getting onto the Broadway stages but then secretly I was this other, we were making this other kind of thing and then I was like, what if we’re just building like, we’re gonna end up being experts at building huge wooden horses full of what? I was just like, uh oh! Like, what am I buying into by caring about about this part of the business? And I can’t help it, still it’s in me, I’m wired, I want to have a hit Broadway musical. Whatever that frickin means I want that thing, you know, and I have to really look now. I needed to look at it years ago, but now I’m like, wow, stop. What? What, what do you want to put in the world? If Broadway, when Broadway comes back, what could it be? That could be, that could be more better, different, deeper, older, fresher, you know? And do I have a place in that or not? You know, I don’t know.
Shaun Bengson:
Maybe it could be better, though.
Abigail Bengson:
Right? Maybe we don’t have to just be like business as usual.
Jose:
I just realized that you’re the first you’ve set of parents that we’ve had. You’re Brad and Angelina, except those aren’t a thing anymore. Tom Hanks and—
Diep:
Beyonce and Jay-Z.
Abigail Bengson:
We are Tom Hanks and Beyonce. That’s right.
Jose:
Thinking about that, because so strange. I mean, that’s strange. And it’s a question that’s probably more for like, you know, general knowledge than for, you know, theater, specific stuff. But every time that I talked to friends, and there’s a little kid around, they at some point will come to the phone and take the phone and start talking to me. And so I love kids, like I love kids. Like, I find it really adorable. But I don’t know how parents are able to explain what’s happening to their children because, I mean, we don’t understand it. And you know, kids suddenly not having you know, their friends or go to school and you know, do all the things that they used to do. Ah, how do you do it?
Shaun Bengson:
Yeah, it was with our boy, he’ll turn four in a couple of weeks. So when this started, he only sort of understood what was happening and we didn’t like, we didn’t go into it super deep with him. And now it’s been long enough that like, masks are normal. You know, they’re like, he doesn’t have all that many, now that it’s been seven months or eight months or whatever, that’s long enough that he doesn’t have a ton of concrete memories from before it started. So it just like is normal. So it’s also because of the way our life worked. We were traveling all the time with him, and we were always, you know, every which way. And so that five months that we spent in Ohio was the longest he had spent without traveling and went home since he was born. I feel like we were lucky in the age that he was, we could just sort of skate into it. But I do think it is like, you know, if he was even six months older, when it started, it would have been really different. And I do know, it’s a really intense thing for our friends who are parents and as sad as we are, a lot of kids are really sad too. I think they just like talk about it, you know, like, there’s a sickness going around, we just have to stay healthy. And I am really grateful that it doesn’t seem to affect children as profoundly as it does. You know, like, I don’t know where my heart would be if it was flipped. Which is how most of human history was like, up until 100 years ago, something like 50% of children died before age 12 or something like that. We’re also in such a weird bubble in human history. Where to be a parent isn’t automatically to be heartbroken in that way, you know, like, go back to our great-grandparents, our great-great-grandparents and they would have 12 kids because seven of them would die.
Abigail Bengson:
It is so bonkers. Ever since realizing we were going to be parents, I feel like everything we make there’s some part of it that for me is like this little time capsule for him. Like making The Lucky Ones was very much about a deep processing, a deep and prayerful processing of my part of my family story that was the hardest for me. And it had to do with, how will I tell him? And I think part of making The Keep Going Song, it really is like how, what do I want him to know of us and of this moment and what could I offer him? And it’s crazy to think that someday he might watch and have a different understanding of this time from our point of view. And I hope, and that’s part of why I just hope it’s so full of love. That he finds it and and knows that even if I don’t know how this moment will be remembered, it might be remembered as only horror, I don’t know, but there was beauty here, you know, there were people planting for the first time, there were people in the revolution. There were people, leaders, far braver than I doing extraordinary things. And that was happening too. And that’s quieter sometimes and slower and smaller and harder to put on the news but it’s happening and so the idea of all of us who are still creating, you and your amazing podcast, who are trying, there are these little capsules that say, we still cared for one another in this.
Shaun Bengson:
I do every once in a while, like I’ll you know, I think about like, what would it have been to be alive during one of those big change-full moments in history, you know, like be alive in the ’60s or, you know, be in Cuba in the ’40s. And the ’50s are like, you know, just like what would it have felt like to be alive then. But I do feel like that’s the other thing is, I think we are living through one of those moments, we’re living through a moment of profound change and uncertainty. And there’s a privilege in that and getting to be a part of it in any small way.
Diep:
Are you all coming back? Or is New York dead?
Abigail Bengson:
No! No, New York is unkillable.
Shaun Bengson:
I do also really, I have a hope that it might like New York could be like ’80s, ’90s a little bit. You know what I mean? I feel like ’80s New York, there’s been a lot that’s been beautiful about it, but I feel like it’s also become like TGI Fridays. And I feel like the Gap is leaving, TGI Fridays is leaving, you know, and like maybe maybe some of the weirder New York can come can come back in. And maybe actually people can afford to live there again. Wouldn’t that be nice?
Abigail Bengson:
We still have our apartment in Queens, we’re never leaving all the way. We have like a tiny one bedroom railroad in Queens. Yeah. So living there all the time with our three year old would be a huge mistake. But we’ll be back. We’re gonna start doing some open air concerts before too long. And we’re not supposed to say when yet because then people might gather. Because it’s like people have to keep moving or it’s all called off is the way it works. But it will happen and I will email you. I miss New York dearly.
Shaun Bengson:
We got to go back for just like a little, a little period. It was really beautiful to see that. And we don’t have any childcare, any childcare there like any real way to our life to function right now. But it was really, it was very emotional place to be there, and I love it so much. We got to go out to Far Rockaway and see the ocean and it’s like New York. So we’ll be back.
Jose:
And the bagels miss you also.
Abigail Bengson:
Give me some gluten.
Jose:
So thank you so much for doing this. It was a pleasure. And do you wanna tell our viewers and our listeners about everything you have coming up except for the outdoor concert obivously.
Abigail Bengson:
Well, we have album up on Spotify and wherever you listen to albums, you can stream it. It’s a sliding scale ticket on the Actors Theatre of Louisville website. And it’s going through like Oct. 8
Shaun Bengson:
October 9.
Abigail Bengson:
So. you got some time but check it out. And not just our work. But, I mean, there’s so much amazing streaming work and I feel like there’s a little barrier to entry. Like, it’s hard to do it when Netflix is right there. But like, give it a shot, not just ours, but the people are making really extraordinary new ideas right now. If you got it in ya, stream The West Wing, take a break, stream a piece of theater, and go back is, what I would say.
Diep:
I’m looking forward to your zoom musical with a delay.
Abigail Bengson:
Yeah, yeah, join us. Absolutely. Thanks, you guys. Thank you so much. Yeah.
Jose:
Is it just me or do you also want the Bengsons to adopt you?
Diep:
They’re like maybe two years older than us.
Jose:
So they could be like Brad and Angelina and we could be—
Diep:
Their like posse of kids of from different countries.
Jose:
From all over the world.
Diep:
That sounds so lovely. I think the theme of this episode is like none of us knows what’s happening, and we’re just functioning.
Jose:
Yeah. In the meantime, here’s the Bengsons to cheer you up and give you some hope.
Diep:
Mm hmm. And, or at the very least some like very reassuring music. Mm hmm. And now, speaking of things that give us hope. If you’re a Patreon subscriber, thank you for continuing to do that and for giving us motivation to continue to do this work. Jose, do you want to talk about why, if people are not Patreon subscribers, why they should be Patreon subscribers?
Jose:
Because we’re poor and we’re exhausted. We have a million other jobs and we really wanted to do this more often and we really want to take more time doing this because we love doing it. $1 a month makes such a huge difference because it’ll allow us to concentrate more on this project that we both really love. And that we want to be able at some point to have enough money to commission pieces by other BIPOC journalists and critics and people want to become critics. And right now we need your help. And we have bonuses with that, with goodies. We have a weekly newsletter. We have exclusive videos, we have outtakes of interviews and we have more content on our Patreon. And we know you don’t expect us to do all of that but we want to give you a little something extra in addition, if you’re able to contribute. And the cool thing, I think, one of the coolest things is that if you become a patron at any level, at the end of the video on YouTube, there’s like the credit sequence and your name is going to be there. You can show your disapproving parents or boyfriends or girlfriends, see, I’m doing something good for the world.
Diep:
Sometimes when there’s a lot going on in the world, I’m just thinking what is Token Theatre Friends, like what are we contributing to this conversation so I hope that we’re contributing, you know, some comfort to you all. Sources of joy and showing you that there’s still beauty and people making things that are worth looking at and people talking about justice in all areas of life. And if you love it, you love the podcast, you can find the podcast on YouTube. And we also have a website tokentheatrefriends.com where you can read all of our writings, we do a lot. And if you like us, you know, feel free to be a Patreon, rate us on iTunes. I think that’s it. Is there anything else you want to say to the people?
Jose:
Bear with us a little sometimes because it’s a two-person ship, boat train, you name your vehicle. And sometimes we’re gonna lag a little bit because we’re human beings and we know you understand but thank you for understanding.
Diep:
Yeah. And now I gotta go write something for the site because I haven’t written something for the site in a couple weeks.
Jose:
Have fun. I’ll do the same and we will see you next week. Wakanda Forever.