Ep 15: What the Hell Is a Republic, Anyway? (Feat: Lisa Peterson and Denis O’Hare)

Lisa Peterson and Denis O’Hare (Image courtesy of New York Theatre Workshop)

Every week, culture critics Diep Tran and Jose Solís bring a POC perspective to the performing arts with their Token Theatre Friends podcast and video series. The show can be found on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, and YouTube. You can listen to episodes from the previous version of the podcast here but to get new episodes, you will need to resubscribe to our new podcast feed (look for the all-red logo).

This week, the Friends talk about two shows. First they discuss Murder at River Crossing Book Club from Live In Theatre Company, which is an interactive murder mystery where the audience get to interrogate witnesses and try to figure out, who killed the richest woman in town? It’s real-life Clue! Then the Friends discuss this year’s Miscast, MCC Theater’s annual gala, where actors perform songs from shows they would never be cast in. Whose performance did the Friends love most? Find out!

This week’s guests are actor Denis O’Hare (True Blood, American Horror Story) and director Lisa Peterson (The Waves, Light Shining in Buckinghamshire). The two are longtime friends who collaborated on the award-winning An Iliad and The Good Book. They’ve figured out to still collaborate with an ocean between them and the newest fruits of their partnership is the new virtual experience: What the Hell Is a Republic Anyway? Beginning live on Sept 22, and going until after the election, Peterson and O’Hare will explore the parallels between the fall of Rome and America today.

Here are links to the things mentioned in the episode:

The episode transcript is below.

Diep:
Hi, this is Diep Tran.

Jose:
I’m Jose Solis.

Diep:
And we’re your token theatre friends, people who love theater so much that I am currently in California where it is a literal dumpster fire. And you know what? I’m still watching theater. How are you doing, Jose? How’s New York?

Jose:
Not a Fury Road. Fortunately, Miss Furiosa

Diep:
I’m just gonna shave my head and go punish some men. You know, that is a mood.

Jose:
I approve that. You don’t need to shave your head for that. But l like otherwise like you can’t defend stuff if you have a bald head.

Diep:
But yeah, I can’t pull it off as as as good as Charlize did. You know like she could really pull off any hair cut.

Jose:
I mean, she was a supermodel before she was an actor. So there we go.

Diep:
Yeah, I’d follow her into the apocalypse.

Jose:
I’d follow at some party but that we were just talking about something else.

Diep:
Okay, I guess Charlize is not a gay icon. Uh, so this week… Oh, this week, what are we talking about?

Jose:
First we’re gonna be talking about an interactive zoom show called Murder at River Crossing Book Club by Live In Theatre Company NYC. And then we’re going to be talking about MCC’s zoom version of miscast.

Diep:
And our guests today are Denis O’Hare and Lisa Peterson, who you may know from their work on an Illiad, which got produced all around the country because it shows how you know, human beings don’t learn. It’s like we’re animals and we just don’t learn and they are back doing a new play where you can also interact with them virtually. What Is a Republic Anyway?, and it will be produced by New York Theatre Workshop. So we talked to them about the state of our democracy. How are you feeling about the state of our Democracy, Jose?

Jose:
Well considering I’m not American citizen, we’re fucked. Everywhere we’re all fucked. Every democracy, all democracies over the world, we’re fucked.

Diep:
Metaphorical dumpster fire.

Jose:
Oh, yeah. Some literal also probably. I mean, I don’t just republicans taking care of, you know, the Senate and like the anyway, the capital I mean, any way. Enough with Republicans, let’s talking about some fun stuff instead.

Diep:
Murder!

Jose:
Yes, I think more fun than what republicans are doing to the country. Right. We went on zoom and we took part in something called Murder at River Crossing Book Club, which if you have ever been in a book club, most book clubs end up becoming like murder cases at some point. So you know, those kind of thing. So this show takes place over zoom. And before you arrive, you’re invited to wear like your best Southern attire. I fucking put a scarf on and a jacket like and I regret it. So it’s like sweating so much. But anyway, that’s not the point of it. They look

Diep:
You looked so cute though. Until you took it off. But I really appreciated the attention to detail.

Jose:
It was so hot, and I was having like anyway, I was having like a little like sangria. I was trying to be like in the zone in the mood and be like my best like Blanche DuBois without the insanity kind of thing going on. But anyway, we get together and zoom and we find out that this woman, Ursula had been murdered. And we have to figure out who did it. Audience members from all over the country cuz you were in California already by then, right.

Diep:
Yeah.

Jose:
Yeah. So audience members from all over the country are playing the reporters who arrived at the site where all this happened. And we have to interrogate all the witnesses. So it’s kind of like a pretty cool game of clue where you figure out exactly what happened. And the show ends when after you’ve interrogated everyone, you have to put together a pitch of sorts and a headline to discuss what’s the theory you could come up with. And when we were going through this, and we were, we were asked to pitch and to give a headline, I was like, I’m being asked to work during a show. Awesome. What is this life?

Diep:
Yeah, when I tell us we’re playing journalists, I’m just like, oh shit.

Jose:
I know. Like, who would you have wanted to play instead? Like, would you have wanted to play like a rich widow?

Diep:
Yes, I wanna play someone that is not me. Because literally, they told us, oh, you’re gonna have to interview people and interrogate them and take notes. I’m just like, oh my god, I’m just gonna overdo this. And you know what I did? pages of notes that I took, and then at one point one of the actors was like, do you have a question? I’m like, Yes, I just need to write this thing down first, because I know it was quiet most of time because I was just trying to record the information so that I could figure out like the best theory about what happened and solve this mystery. And especially because you’re in one of those mini zoom rooms when you’re interrogating people with answers. And so there’s really no room to just like sit back and not do anything.

Jose:
But the experience to me was how few people apparently have read Gone with the Wind, which is the book that we’re supposed to be reading in the book club within the play. And I was being like an ultra like literature nerd. And being like, I love this book so much. It’s one of my favorite books. And I’m like, I’m gonna try to see if the answer to the mystery is inside the book. It wasn’t. I think it was just like a random choice that they picked for the fake book club. But anyway, so

Diep:
It was southerners you know, it’s like it’s a southern town with like, a dark secret and so they pick Gone with the Wind, as their book.

Jose:
But remember, it was a foreigner who picked it

Diep:
Wait, I thought it was the lady who got murdered. I thought she picked it.

Jose:
Didn’t the teacher pick it? Remember? Okay, now we’re just spoiling to show.

Diep:
Okay, okay, let’s not go there. The interesting thing about what Jose was talking about about like, how At the end, we as a group picked Jose to be the one to pitch the article and make the headline because he came up with like a theory that was actually half right. And it picked up on something that I didn’t pick up while I was, you know, furiously taking notes. So my question for you, Jose, how much soaps do you watch? And did do you think that helped you in figuring out the details of this, you know, tawdry mystery.

Jose:
I don’t watch any soaps, but I always meant to be a spy. So I’m good at like, detecting, like those things that escaped other people. So I was like, yep, this happened. And I was right. However, I cannot believe and this is not a spoiler because like you will figure out unless you like, excellent in the show. I cannot believe that a fashion item was the thing that I couldn’t see where a lot of the answers were. So I was like, I’m very disappointed myself like Miranda Priestly would be like, that’s all right now. But did you have fun?

Diep:
I have a lot of fun. I think when it comes to things that make you really interact and this is one of those shows where you have to be present for it as an audience member and it really depends on like your state of mind when when you come into it if you’re open to that, and I really don’t think this show is like good for anyone who who wants to be a wallflower.

Jose:
No, and more people should read gone with the wind, because issues that it talked about aside it’s just like a really great piece of literature. Any way it felt like the closest I felt at a show to feeling like a journalist if that makes sense like it encompass so beautifully what it is like to be a journalist and it reminded me of why I love being a journalist and why I love storytelling and why I love tawdry you know murder mysteries and why people should not do scenes from the books they’re are reading in the book club because it never ends well. And also why people should have more champagne in their person at all times although, you won’t get what I’m talking about, unless you see the show, which I hope you do, because I was so excited when they said that they do the show for private zooms also, and I’m like if you’re really bored, and you’re really tired of seeing your friends in sweatpants, or shirtless as most of my gay friends show up at our zooms, which is not as fun as it sounds, get these people and like do like a fun little party with your friends all over like with your family and try to solve a murder mystery to cover. Like, I love the component that it was, you know, like you had to be very present, which is something that I haven’t felt, in a lot of the shows that are that we’ve seen during the pandemic. Where like you had to be there. You had to be paying attention. You’re not supposed to be on your phone. I did leave for a little second because like I was getting too hot and I had to take all my clothes off so but other than that I was here. I was like, I crank the volume up and I was like, I want to hear everything the witnesses have to say right now. Cuz I’m fucking cracking this murder. Like it’s the last thing I do during the pandemic.

Diep:
Yeah, if you are task oriented, this is a show for you. What I really liked is, and this is like a technical thing, I really like how the actors you know, they’re able to like stay in character and take any of the really random questions people were asking them. And what I really liked was, I didn’t do as much questioning because you know, everyone else was very spirited. But I noticed a couple times the actors actually like called me out to ask me if I had anything to say or to interact with me like I really like like how they made sure like everyone had their moment as an audience member.

Jose:
Yeah, and I also love, obviously we’re not going to talk about the audience members every side with out of respect, cuz we don’t know them, though one of them was so cute. Anyway. It was so interesting as a sociological experiment. You know what What I’m talking about right? Anyway.

Diep:
Yes, yeah.

Jose:
Yeah. Hi if you’re watching. This so interesting as a sociological experiment because it made me think a lot about 12 Angry Men and how like when you’re in a group trying to solve something together, this like structure always shows up. And there was one member in our audience who took on like the Charles Laughton kind of like, I’m the leader of the pack, kind of thing. And he was so freaking adorable. He kept calling everyone Mr. and Miss, as if we were actually in the south. And I don’t know, I just loved him so much. Like, I wish I could, you know, say his name, but I don’t remember and also like, I respect my audience members. He was so adorable. Like, sir, you have a career as a character somewhere.

Diep:
Like I literally thought he was a plant initially or like someone from the artistic team, but then but then I was like, wait, you’re getting way too into this for someone who works there. So he must love murder mysteries. He must be be really good at clue he must get really involved during board games. I commend you sir for just your spirit, though maybe let other people talk sometimes. You know, give other people space.

Jose:
And I did love maybe I mean probably because I had too much sangria when I when we did that, but I loved how you mentioned clue also and like the little squares and stuff like it made me think of clue but also one of my favorite games when I was growing up: Guess Who.

Diep:
Thing is like I never really played clue growing up. So it’s like I only really know about it from like pop culture.

Jose:
Yes, same. I mean, we’re both nerds. But clearly we’re not board game nerds.

Diep:
No, I kind of hate board games actually.

Jose:
Even monopoly?

Diep:
Yeah, it’s all fake money doesn’t matter. Nothing matters.

Jose:
But it has some cute things. I mean, fuck the money part. Like it was like fuck real estate but I like it had the little cute pieces.

Diep:
Yeah little cards. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I know.

Jose:
I always got the little dog and the little car.

Diep:
Like you’re just into games for aesthetics.

Jose:
Sold, sold, sold sold. And this game of murder mystery was actually very, very cute. So I’m like, I was very into it.

Diep:
Mm hmm. Like Jose if anything ever happens to me, I’m gonna like leave it no be like call Jose, he’ll figure it out.

Jose:
I’ll try my best. I mean, I’m not gonna knock on wood and I hope that note never comes. But uh, I’ll try my merger at river crossing book club has an open run and they’re actually encouraging people to hire them, you know, for a party for a cocktail hour for some girl fashion, merger time, fun, whatever that means. But yeah, it’s fun.

Diep:
I listened to a podcast yesterday and they said that the way to get through this moment and keep your relationships is to have novelty, create new experiences however you can. So this could be a way for you to strengthen your relationship with your friends.

Jose:
I thought you had just turned the murder river crossing into, like roleplay for couples, which I’m like, this is not our sex podcast yet. But if it were, yes, it would be fun right to be to be Yeah. Roleplay at murder at river crossing, book club. I encourage that.

Diep:
You put some spice into your sexual relationship.

Jose:
And then you can zoom in like different rooms in your apartment. Well, I’m not gonna give you all that roleplay ideas for free, you’re gonna have subscribe to our upcoming sex podcast for that. So let’s move on to our next show.

Diep:
We’re not doing a sex podcast unless you all actually want us to do a sex podcast. I mean, neither of us is having sex right now, so.

Jose:
That’s why we have plants and bread.

Diep:
Yeah, instead of boys I have carbs now.

Jose:
Don’t you have like fancy trees over there?

Diep:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Did you see my dragon fruit?

Jose:
I mean, it’s technically your parents’ dragon fruit.

Diep:
Yeah, my parents. I don’t eat it.

Jose:
You don’t eat it.

Diep:
No, I don’t actually like dragon fruit.

Jose:
So you have like the thing and you don’t want it like literally this is the case of the grass is always greener.

Diep:
Would you like me to ship you some?

Jose:
Dragon fruit? I mean are you even allowed to ship anything like produce right now with the world falling apart.

Diep:
Oh it’s true though there have been reports of like people’s like food and stuff brought in because it’s not getting to the destination because US has stopped funding the post office maybe not.

Jose:
Send me like dried dragon fruit or whatever that is or seeds so I can plant my own dragon fruit. No probably seeds are a bad idea. Anyway, let’s do our next show.

Diep:
All right. So MCC theater, which is an off Broadway theater and Manhattan every year for their annual gala, they do a show called Miscast with a bunch of Broadway stars who sing songs from shows that they will never get to sing on stage because they’re not the right character type for it. So it’s a lot of men singing songs originally written by women. My personal favorite was that time, Kelly O’Hara saying a Billy Flynn song From Chicago, and it was very hot. You can watch it on YouTube. It may have turned Jose straight for five minutes.

Jose:
Made me Gayer

Diep:
Oh after that I tweeted about how I would join her all-female mafia, and she’d liked it.

Jose:
Some lipstick lesbians gonna rule the world someday.

Diep:
And this year, MCC theater did a virtual version of miscast where anyone could tune in to watch and donate money and a lot of people did. It was really fun to actually watch it in its entirety instead of watching it on YouTube in small videos, because I’ve actually never been to a miscast gala because I’m not cool enough to be invited to one. Have you been to one?

Jose:
God no. I’m not rich enough. I’m not cool enough. Like no, like this is the closest that I’ll ever be to one. But Kelly O’Hara wasn’t there. So whatever.

Diep:
Norbert Leo Butz was there.

Jose:
And he mentioned her. So I was like oh my god, does this mean that she’s gonna show up but nope. So Norbert, I don’t like you right now.

Diep:
Like never tease Kelly O’Hara to Jose.

Jose:
Never.

Diep:
It’s interesting the way they did this because it was different from the other theater variety shows. A lot of people shot like music videos almost to where they lip synced to them singing the song. Ingrid Michaelson sang a song and I’m pretty sure it was lip synced. It sounded like it was lip synced. Rob Maclaurin saying Mrs. Lovett song from the worst place in London from Sweeney Todd and that was definitely lip sync because he was like, banging with a rolling pin and eating cat food and generally chaotic energy that I was really entertained by.

Jose:
Robbie fairchilds performance obviously cuz he was like jumping like he was. What’s his cat name again? Munklestruck. Munkustrap.

Diep:
Munkustrap, yeah.

Jose:
Munkustrap. I’m gonna start to calling him Munku jockstrap. Because holy crap is that cat very gay and I love him for it ever since he played a gay cat I’ve been like strangely attracted to him and he kind of brought the gay cat thing back for this one cuz he was dancing all over his apartment. He does have a very small kitchen which I’m like, makes me kind of good for living in Brooklyn cuz I have a huge kitchen, so.

Diep:
Mm hmm. Relatable you know, Broadway stars. They also have you know, window AC units.

Jose:
I forgot what I was saying cuz I was thinking about Robbie jumping and like twirling on his rooftop and I was so scared for him but yeah, like he was obviously lip sync’d.

Diep:
Mm hmm.

Jose:
Which was cool because I mean, like, if they’re not gonna give us like the live thing, they might as well give us a little bit of like some flair. And you know, seeing some choreography for instance, like that was kind of fun.

Diep:
Yeah, I kind of wish it was more like what Robert Fairchild and Rob McClure did which was you know, film gave us know many music video, though, because a lot of it was people just getting directly to a camera, not live. But I understand that it’s one of those things. Some people have resources and experience doing that other people don’t. So it’s really dependent on performers. You know, I hope as we go through this experience, maybe they’ll bring in more directors to help direct these actors on how to you know, really make great at home music videos or at home performances. I think we’re past performing in the bathroom.

Jose:
Right, right, right. But at the same time, I’m also like, you know, if you need to perform in the bathroom is a fucking horrible tense for everyone. So please perform in the bathroom. Like, I appreciate that you’re singing to us. So do your thing. But if you can drill it a bit of extra magic, like it is very, very encouraged. Who is your favorite?

Diep:
Oh my god, Rob McClure, which is surprising because I’m usually not about him at all.

Jose:
Why not? He’s so cute.

Diep:
Yeah, but he hasn’t been in anything I actually like.

Jose:
Well, that was a chaplain. Did you see chaplain?

Diep:
No.

Jose:
But I love him though. My favorite I think one of the things about Miscast and I always find very funny is that I end up seeing these people who are miscast, and they’re perfect for the role. Who doesn’t want Katrina fucking Lent to play Tevya? Right.

Diep:
I also want Adrian Warren as Hello Dolly now, we weren’t thinking it but then she said and sang the song and I’m like, Oh my god, you only like 20 years off. If Barbara can do it at 27 you can do it now.

Jose:
Do it. Yeah, go for it. Who doesn’t want Kelli also as Billy Flynn. And who doesn’t want Norbert as Mary Magdalene. I have never been more attracted to someone singing tomorrow as I was to Joshua Henry, with his guitar in front of his posters, singing that song and I was like, Am I supposed to be turned on by song about an orphan?

Diep:
So he should put on the red wig?

Jose:
No, no, no, no, I don’t have like an Annie fetish. Like No, I’m just talking about the marriage of the song with someone who I think is really talented and hot, anyway. To make my point better, when Leslie Odom Jr. and his wife, Nicolette Robinson sang the human heart from once on this island. I want Leslie Odom Jr. to play Erzulie at some point now I was like this is perfect. That voice it was like perfect he can totally play a goddess of like things as long as there are other roles that are usually played by men women can take so he can get to play Erzulie at some point.

Diep:
Yeah, what you were saying about Josh Henry, I think is really key to like enjoying miscast, which was enjoying the fact that these performers because it’s so different from the original tension of the song they imbue the song with like new meaning and new interpretation because we’ve never heard tomorrow from Annie saying, acoustically with the guitar and down to earth and very bare bones. It sounded like a Bonnie Bear song.

Jose:
Yeah, played by a very hot man and a very hot man rarely sings tomorrow. But also, you know, like, sometimes it’s the opposite. It’s like the song shows up with the performer and you’re like, yeah, this totally fits like I can see what’s happening. Like when Isaac Powell sang on my own, and I was like, You have such Eponine energy Isaac Powell, but I, but I’m like, yeah, this is like, you know, this is good. It’s a good song and good performance. And I’m like, you totally have Eponine energy. Which maybe I should do my rendition of I dream the dream now that I have Fontine’s haircut right now.

Diep:
Mm hmm. Yeah, you pulled a Anne Hathaway, or Britney Spears in your bathroom.

Jose:
Well, give me the Oscar. Oh, I’ll do it.

Diep:
But I really want to commend the MCC team for it was edited by 18 people in five different states and all these performers like all around the country or the world now. So it was really, it was really great for them to put this event together for us knowing how much people love it. And to like show people that Oh, you don’t Have to do your gala or your event or your theater look at the same way that it had been done before. Like you can try something new and I saw in the comments like so many people want them to do that next year they want it live cast, they stumbled onto an opportunity to like put MCC’s message out to more people.

Jose:
And potentially make more money. Theaters isn’t supposed to open until the fall of 2021 so we’re gonna be getting zoom galas for a very long time.

Diep:
And the great thing about zoom galas is a celebrity doesn’t you have to fly them in to perform they can do it anywhere so that’s potentially cheaper than renting out a gigantic venue with tables and shit.

Jose:
Do we have anything else to say about Miscast?

Diep:
Oh yeah, I just want to say though producers can you all please just try to coordinate better your events because on the same night miscast happened, at the same time, there was a Princess Bride Zoom reading reunion that was a fundraiser for the Wisconsin democrats and so I missed Mandy Patinkin doing Inigo Montoya again because I was busy watching Miscast which you know no regrets but I missed out on something.

Jose:
More importantly I thought you were gonna say the same thing that I was missing because of miscast and it was Verses with Miss Patti Labelle and Miss freaking Gladys Knight and I was flipping channels whatever that means nowadays like basically you know from my iPad to my TV and because of Miss cuz I ended up missing Gladys Knight singing Midnight Train to Georgia which is why I’m going to give you my rendition of Midnight Train to Georgia now as part of my miscast. Should I? know I shouldn’t, maybe you should do your Inigo Montoya. And then I can do my Midnight Train to Georgia.

Diep:
I’m gonna get like angry emails if I try to do an accent.

Jose:
I mean, just say something from the Princess Bride so I can get to sing a few notes.

Diep:
Okay, as you wish.

Jose:
Okay, that was like really wonderful Bravo. This is our miscast by the way. And now he’s leaving leaving on the midnight train to Georgia leaving on a midnight train to Georgia I’d rather live in his world, than live without him in mine. Miscast this was our gala give us some money. Speaking about people that are in different parts of the world. We went to London via zoom to talk to Denis O’Hare and Lisa Pearson who was in New York to talk about their new project for New York theater worship. So let’s go check out that interview.

Diep:
Hi, Dennis.

Denis O’Hare
Hi, there. How are you?

Jose:
Good. How are you?

Denis O’Hare
Alright.

Diep:
You’re quarantining in London, right?

Denis O’Hare
I am, exactly. This is my lovely pad. It’s very nice. Where are you guys?

Jose:
Brooklyn.

Diep:
New York, Queens.

Denis O’Hare
Nice.

Diep:
Are you ever coming back?

Denis O’Hare
No.

Jose:
Hi, Lisa. Good morning.

Lisa Peterson:
Hi, you guys.

Diep:
Hi, Lisa.

Lisa Peterson:
Hi, Diep. Hello.

Diep:
Hi, Lisa, where are you right now?

Lisa Peterson:
I am up on 181st street with Rachel Hauck who says hello to you.

Diep:
Oh! Oh my god, I have no idea you all live together.

Lisa Peterson:
We’ve been together for 23 years.

Diep:
Oh, wow. I really do not follow people’s personal lives. Yeah, but my greetings to Rachel.

Lisa Peterson:
I will.

Denis O’Hare
You guys have Manhattan, Queens and Brooklyn, is Staten Island showing up? And the Bronx?

Jose:
Someone might drop into our apartments like never know. So why do An Iliad now during epidemic and how is it changing from previous versions that you’ve done of it?

Lisa Peterson:
Well, this actually is it is connected in a in a distant way with An Iliad but it’s it’s a whole new thing. An Iliad obviously is the piece that we made starting in about 2005 About the Trojan it was an adaptation of Homer’s Iliad and really a response to the fact that the US had invaded Iraq. So it was really very much about war. We still perform people do that play around the country. And then and we actually tour our version with Denis playing the poet around the world. We’ve had this really fun side hustle, I guess, for six years now, we’ve been on the touring circuit with Emilia and we’ve gone to some really great places, including we’ve played it in Cairo, we’ve played it in Shanghai, and we had been working on a companion piece, a solo for a woman to do that was called song of Rome, and kind of picked up the story, the classical story from the end of the Trojan War, but was and and and followed Aeneas, you know, route back westward until he sort of founds Rome and with air quotes around it, and but really that this companion piece was a chance for us to start talking about Empire and government and the way that human beings organized themselves because we, we started thinking about how, like five years ago, Denis? That that’s what we wanted to be thinking about, you know.

Denis O’Hare
And the funny thing is, is that that play has been moving forward. But then incidentally, Jim Nicola became interested in pulling out of that play a section called What the Hell is Republic Anyway, which deals only with the republic part of Rome, and not the monarchy and not the Empire and not the fall of Rome. So now we’ve become the play. In this weird way. Lisa and I are the major protagonists in a play, kind of about writing a play and about collaboration, but about where we are in this moment. And of course, the play keeps changing because in the middle of it, the pandemic happens, so we moved it to zoom and then Black Lives Matter happened. And we were like, Oh my God. We have to respond to this. And now the election is happening. Oh my God, we have to respond to that. And we keep responding in real time to these real crisises in our democracy.

Jose:
So where are we at this moment, then?

Lisa Peterson:
Let’s see today, we’ve discovered that Trump is encouraging his voters to vote twice.

Denis O’Hare
And he lied about acknowledging that he lied about the pandemic, and he knew it was bad, and he’d lied. And you know, as a friend of mine pointed out, his mother died in a nursing home in April. And had they known and had he been honest, and had he had a plan, she would be alive today. Her death is directly on his doorstep, which is incredible that this man has done this. So where we’re at, in a weird way, is where we’re at with our play, we’re looking at Rome, and how republican Rome slowly fell apart. And we’re on that road.

Diep:
So are you optimistic about November. How are you feeling?

Lisa Peterson:
I’m scared. Yeah, I I wish I could be. I’ve had moments of optimism, though I have some reservations. I’m mostly I’m excited particularly about Kamala Harris. I was actually I’m from California, so I

Diep:
Me too.

Lisa Peterson:
know that she’s–you are? Oh, yeah.

Diep:
Yeah.

Lisa Peterson:
What part?

Diep:
Oh, Southern Orange County. I’m actually flying out tomorrow.

Lisa Peterson:
Oh my gosh. Okay, I’m from I’m from Santa Cruz. In Northern California.

Diep:
Oh my god. Hopefully they’re okay from the

Lisa Peterson:
The fires are incredibly scary.

Diep:
Woo, okay. This is..

Lisa Peterson:
I know. But anyway, I was. I’ve been I you know, she she’s a tough ass. I’m inspired by her and I actually when she was running for president, she was kind of my top pick for a while. So like I got it. I got hopeful when she was chosen as the as the vice presidential nominee and I actually think she would make a great president so I can see it. I look at her and I go, Oh my gosh, this might be our future. But I don’t know, you know, I know we shouldn’t listen to the polls. But he’s basically even. How can that be? So I am pretty nervous about the election.

Denis O’Hare
Well, that’s that’s the continuing I think, in French, you say casse tête, which means to break the head, it’s literally banging your head against the against the wall in French. It’s baffling to me, that there can be anybody in our country who still believes that that man is capable of being in that office, even if you like his style, and you kind of hate the Democrats. Honestly, that man is not capable of running the country. He’s running into the ground and anybody who believes he is, then we were in a lot more trouble than I thought. That’s why I’m not optimistic. Because even if Biden wins, we still have that 40% of those people who would have voted for that man, and they’re still in our country, and they still carry guns, and they still show up at rallies. And they will still support regressive policies, and they will still protest against protesters. That’s what I find unfathomable. We have people who are protesting police brutality. And we have people protesting the protest. What are you protesting? What are you protesting? When you are against Black lives matter? What are you against? I don’t get it.

Lisa Peterson:
They’re against Black people.

Denis O’Hare
Well, it seems obvious to me, the fact that this is what our country has come to, that we have people taking the law into their own hands and showing up with weapons, and that that’s not illegal, is a huge problem. And so I’m not optimistic. I’m not optimistic about this country at all. I think this country’s fault lines have always been there. And I think Trump has made them made them acceptable, and people are acting on that. And I think Biden, if he’s elected, it would be amazing, but how is he going to put

Diep:
Oh, you cut off at the end there Denis?

Denis O’Hare
Probably just as well. I mean, how do you put that awful genie back in the bottle.

Lisa Peterson:
I don’t know, you know the thing. I kind of assume that I mean, I think it’s true that that most people look at where we are in this country right now. And they see. I mean, if they’re at all interested in ancient history as a model, it’s kind of obvious to think of Trump as a sort of terrible Emperor to make parallels between him and Nero fiddling while Rome burns, or even worse, worse, Emperor’s Caligula the really scary guy. I think the reason we’re trying to focus on the republic part of Roman history is because of those deeper fault lines that we’re observing. Lke, yes, Trump is XY and Z. We have a president right now who is leaning us further and further away from the rpublic and more and more toward an empire. Now, that’s a pattern that happened in Rome 2000 years ago. It’s worth looking at and we’re not the only ones. Lots of lots of looking at it. But I think we decided that all the structures that were put in place over time, you know, that made the Roman Republic lasts for 500 years. Some of them were things that the Americans borrowed very consciously. This is what we’re learning that it’s not accidental that there are similar that those guys in the room where it happened, you know, I mean, I can’t start picturing like now Hamilton guys. Were like, bringing out their history books, we’re like, what did Cicero say about this. Yeah. And so the founding principles that make the little machine runs, and tend toward fairness and tend toward equity and tend toward trying to take care of everybody are they’re borrowed from the Romans, and they’re in peril now. So just trying to understand a little bit more about what a Republic is, is what this piece is about, and really, we’re not experts at all. So what we do is we sort of say we are to theater people are a bit panicked about what is about to happen. And we are want to expose our as if we, you know, metaphorically had these piles of books, and we are just rifling through them to try to find, I don’t know, a bit of positivity, some humor and answer some clarity. Do you want to be with us while we kind of page through all this research and also, as we sort of, you know, bounce the ball back and forth between each other about what is happening right now.

Denis O’Hare
But also, you know, the thing about you know, Rome is many things to many people. And what you hear when you hear Rome differs according to each person’s experience. And a lot of people hear Rome, they just think of military might. Or they hear of Rome and they think of the buildings or whatever. But you know, that Rome invented law. That Rome, you know, was a democratic republic in some ways in many ways. And in a in a stew of other nations which weren’t doing that at all, it’s kind of extraordinary. And when you think about the fact that the Romans, you know, they use protests to get what they wanted. So thinking about Black Lives Matter. There was one big period in Roman history where the plebs meaning people who weren’t patricians, weren’t allowed to vote and weren’t allowed to be in the Senate. So they withdrew, they left the city, and they went somewhere else. And they took all their military might and all their food and all their animals and their wives and went good luck. And the patricians were like, Wait, come back, we need you and said, well if we come back, we get to vote. They went, Okay. You get to vote. So you watch in Rome, this process by which people acquired rights through protest and through actions. It’s inspirational in a way, you know, and Lisa mentioned that the founding fathers were aware of Rome. There’s a play called Cato was written by a guy named Addison, and in the 1730s he was hugely popular, and George Washington had it performed for his men at Valley Forge in the middle of the winter to inspire them.

Lisa Peterson:
And who was Cato, Denis?

Denis O’Hare
Cato was a Roman senator who, who in time of Julius Caesar, fought against Julius Caesar, because Julius Caesar was trying to dismantle the Republic and become a dictator and become a an autocrat and Cato fought against that for liberty and freedom. And in fact, the Patrick Henry’s cry give me liberty or give me death is a plagiarism from Cato.

Lisa Peterson:
Oh, I didn’t know that.

Denis O’Hare
It’s taken from that play. Yeah, but that’s the Americans weren’t just vaguely aware of Rome. They built this country on Roman foundations and Roman principles.

Jose:
When you described the President as one of the most horrible emperors, I also started seeing him as like a Greek figure like an Oedipus, especially knowing what you said right now. The death of his mom. And I wonder for you as artists, and just as human beings, is it comforting or just like super depressing that we have had this stories for centuries and centuries, and we still don’t get them? We keep repeating them.

Denis O’Hare
That, you know, we confront that in the Iliad, that’s one of the central themes of An Iliad is basically, we have all the evidence, when will mankind change? And I think it’s no different there are progresses made, obviously, people’s life expectancy is longer. We deal with poverty in a different way. We are a more democratic society. Go ahead, Lisa. Sorry.

Lisa Peterson:
I was just listening to you and thinking, I guess I find it both, Jose. Both depressing to think that human kind doesn’t learn but also I do ultimately think that that we move forward in a very spiral way, bit by bit, then again, I think about climate change. Do I really think we move forward toward racial justice? Yes, a bit most kind of, but not really. So very slowly, very slowly, slowly. So it’s for me, it’s both comforting to know that that we’ve been through this before, and very, very depressing. And it’s such a good question. I’m puzzling over it. So.

Denis O’Hare
One of the great things about looking at Rome and America is just to look at what did Rome do well, that were not doing well. And one of the things that Rome did really well was that Rome did not trust in the individual. They were not an individualized society. They were a collective society, a communal society. They mistrusted the individual so much, that in their power, they had two leaders, two consoles, who were co presidents at the same time, but only served for one year, and then they got to go. That’s what they knew about human nature. What would happen if you allow one man to run things. George Washington was offered to be the king of The US and he said no. And then he was offered to be president. And then he offered a second term. He said, No, I don’t think I should have a second term. We’ve lost that idea. He was trying to be Roman in the idea of he understood the temptation to think that you have all the answers, let somebody else come up. New Energy, new power.

Lisa Peterson:
It really is a pro government idea.

Denis O’Hare
Lisa and I talk a lot about government and government structures. And, you know, I’m very pro government because the answer the other answer is anarchy. And anarchy kills more people. Do you want to have more people alive? Oh, my people dead. Those are your options. If it’s going to be anarchy, total anarchy more people will die. Because people will form their own mini governments. They just will. People collect themselves. They organize themselves. They take a leader and they make rules. That’s what happens.

Diep:
You’re telling us, Lisa, that you’ll be acting in the piece.

Lisa Peterson:
It’s not a traditional play. I don’t actually think it’s right to call what we’re doing. Now. For for New York Theatre Workshop a play. What the Hell is Republic Anyway? is is more of an experiment. And it’s very meta theatrical. If you can even say Theatre in the context, that it’s a digital project. Yeah, the only characters are Denis and me. We are playing ourselves. We are in it. I’ve never been so nervous as I was. We worked on this with Dartmouth, you know, New York Theatre Workshop, normally up in August goes up to Dartmouth to workshop stuff. So we did that but virtually, and we did a performance up there. The piece is really structured as a conversation that Dennis and I are having and the kind of town meeting because we interact with the audience. What makes it most experimental other than the fact that I am not an actor. I’m just being myself, and that the piece is semi scripted, but a lot of it is improv improvised is that we really interact with the audience. The piece is a zoom meeting between Dennis and I and an audience of 100 people. And we ask the people to come in and do certain things with us and then turn off their video and mute themselves and listen, because I think it’s the most fun. And the craziest is this unknown of us asking questions about audience and asking them to do certain things with us, and basically trying to run a meeting of 100 people of 100 strangers, and get a sense of them.

Denis O’Hare
And in that, you know, it reflects the experiment that is democracy and government, because we have an opportunity with with zoom to have an audience come from not just New York City, not just come from Brooklyn and the Upper West Side, we can have audience come from Texas, from places that don’t normally to get access to this kind of theater, people who don’t agree with us, people who may have a very different point of view, and we’re really excited about that idea. That to me would be really interesting.

Diep:
Is it hard to play a character or to play yourself?

Denis O’Hare
I’ve done it before. It’s always a little weird. I mean, here’s the funny thing. My character version of me is always a little bit more of an asshole for some reason. I don’t know why that happened.

Jose:
At what point during the you know quarantine and the chaos of the epidemic, that you go okay time to create? Cuz I know that for the first month or so, I barely wanted to leave my couch and like stop eating ice cream and watch Sex and the City reruns.

Lisa Peterson:
In January, we were seriously talking about doing it live on stage. And it was more about the coming election than anything else. And, Denis, I don’t know if you’ve said this already, but Denis lives in Paris now. And so he and I work this way, meaning using zoom or Skype back in the day. This is how we work. And so we thought even then there would be a virtual or digital element to it because we weren’t sure maybe I would be sitting on the stage view, on 4th Street and Denis would be in a theater in Paris or something like that. So there was a natural, when the pandemic hit and all of a sudden, this is the only way all of us are communicating, it sort of seemed obvious that we could keep working on it. But I will say personally for myself, I don’t know. I’m not saying this is a good thing, because I say, but I clutched immediately, like, literally that weekend after all the theaters closed, I started going, Okay, what am I going to do? I’m going to have this project with this friend, I’m going to meet that person, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, from two to three. I’m going to talk to Denis on Tuesdays and Thursdays from one to four. My only response to the unknown was to go into major scheduling. And I’m not proud of that. And now like six months into it, I missed an opportunity to simply exhale and to just be, I actually admire people like you, Jose, who went you know what I do not know. And I’m just gonna Just sit in that for a while but that’s not me. I am very I need projects I need to be busy to to an extreme that can be unhealthy.

Denis O’Hare
You’re not really an Aquarius, you should have been born a Capricorn like me.

Lisa Peterson:
Oh my goodness. So I threw so many balls in the air back in March and April like ideas for when do we do this when we do that, but now that they’re actually coming to fruition, which I didn’t think they would, and they’ve stacked up on me. So I am doing many projects right now.

Denis O’Hare
Do you mind if I ask you guys a question?

Diep:
Of course.

Denis O’Hare
Back to the topic of government and the election and all that. I had a very disturbing but enlightening conversation with my 30 year old cousin. Who said that he sees no difference between the two parties. That he sees if they’re one party, the party of money. I’m just curious, your reaction to that.

Jose:
No, that’s insane. First of all, it’s insane. I have complicated complex thoughts because I am an immigrant. I can’t even vote right now. Like I have like, almost like no rights in this country right now. And one of the reasons why I ended up moving to America was because the 2009 there was a democratic backed military coup in my home country. So I ended up here and then there’s a republican president telling me to go back to where Obama and Clinton helped destabilize. So no, no, no. If I could vote, I would. I would be wearing Biden Harris stuff everywhere. It’s so interesting, cuz like even we know every time I hear the word Republic, and I see my peers thinking about Republic, they probably imagined some like Star Wars state or like, we must save the Republic and feels like very detached, very surreal. But it’s I keep reminding people here, you know, that voting is both a duty and also a privilege. And that’s the one thing that I want everyone, you know, since I can’t vote, I tell him, please vote for me.

Diep:
It makes me really sad. Because as a journalist, I just consume information and I want to be informed. It really saddens me to know that educated people can be that misinformed, and how the information system and our society is just broken. And we’ve all gone off into our own factions where we only consume the information that we consider safe for us to consume. I think if you are an avid reader of the news, and you have media literacy, and you know about the different positions of the parties and the politicians, like you cannot say that because it is unequivocally untrue. But there are people who think that and so what I’ve been struggling with is just how do you convince people to believe in a system that they think is flawed?

Denis O’Hare
And it is flawed because it’s run by human beings? So every every institution that has people in it, like the UN, I love the UN Of course, the UN is flawed because it’s run by human beings. And it’s a political organization. So you have political considerations. Every decision is political. Of course it is, of course, it’s flawed.

Jose:
It’s also very sad because like people see elections happening once and it’s like the presidential like the general election. That’s it. But I keep telling people Sure, like, Democrats have lobbyists and like all those like those old guard figures, but if you refuse to vote for the Democratic platform, you’re erasing AOC, Ilhan Omar, all those incredible women of color who are bringing change and obviously they can’t all run for president at once like and people forget that. You know, you mentioned the progress was a spiral. And it’s so slow, so very so spiral like, if you don’t vote for Biden and Harris, you are denying AOC and Presley, and Rashid and all this incredible women the opportunity to even grow as politicians and to actually make the change that we want.

Lisa Peterson:
That is so well put, you just gave three great examples of why I do feel that there is progress.

Denis O’Hare
And they educate by their very existence. Their existence tells people a story that they may not have known before.

Lisa Peterson:
And they’re inspiring thinkers and they have the vision for the future. So that coil it’s like always tight, that coil toward progress.

Jose:
I wonder since since the two you were ahead in the collaborating virtually over Skype or zoom before everyone else in theater got into it, what are some of the things that you would like to break from this practice of collaborating digitally, to when people I hope fingers crossed someday soon, are allowed to meet again and collaborate together?

Denis O’Hare
It’s a great opportunity is to erase time and distance. Lisa and I are really consistent. We work all the time. We talk to least three or four times a week. Sometimes for hours we work together. I’m in Paris, I have a son. So I put my son down to bed, I read him a story at night at 1030 or 11, and put him to bed, and then get out of bed with him and I meet Lisa online. That’s amazing that we can do a collaboration doesn’t have to be in the same city. And I love this idea that we can continue to invite other people to witness these collaborations. Because if you don’t get to New York Theatre Workshop on West Fourth Street, you’re not going to see this piece. Well, now you can, anybody can subscribe, anybody for 10 bucks a month can join your theater workshop season anywhere and see it. You know, the trans kid in Mississippi who has no support around them has an opportunity digitally, to not be alone, to find a community to find other people that they can talk to. That’s huge gift of this technology.

Diep:
I’m wondering cuz Jose and I’ve had a lot of content Back and forth about like, what makes theatre theatre now in the age of zoom? And what makes it different from like film and TV? What are your opinions about how theater can can still be itself, but done over a screen?

Lisa Peterson:
Well, for me, I think it centers on the idea of what is live. Because I talked about this all the time, one of the primary things about theater beyond this ancient idea we have to gather in the space together. As a director, I’ve talked about that for decades. And this is what makes theater beautiful. We gather in a space together, just like people have been doing for centuries, and we have to be together. But I do now know that there are other ways for us to gather in a space together, like what Denis is talking about. We are gathered, the four of us are gathered in a space together, we’re listening to each other. And we’re thinking we’re having a conversation. So that’s the that’s gathering in a space together. But what theatre does that film and television doesn’t do is it is live in a moment. So that moment could be like for me, it’s whatever 10:30 in the morning for Denis, it’s 3:30 in the afternoon, I don’t even know where you guys are, you might be in a different time zone you could be. But this moment that we’re in is the same and anything could happen. Something could blurt out of my mouth, Denis could get up and he could suddenly need to leave. And we wouldn’t know why. We could ask a question of you guys and that might, might change the nature of the conversation. All those things are live. So I don’t think I mean that it has to be, you know, a live zoom thing. But there’s something about the presence of liveness that you have to capture even if you are recording it. The only other project in this New York Theatre Workshop series that the instigator series that I’ve been able to glance at is seeing David Cale and Dael Orlandersmith, work on their piece a little bit because they were also up at Dartmouth. If we had really been in Dartmouth, we’d be having meals with them. We’d be seeing them on the path. So we didn’t get any of that. But I did sit in on their presentation, and there’s David in his living room and there’s Dael in her living room, and they’re alternating reading these brand new monologues. And even though it wasn’t live, we were live because that’s what we’re doing. We’re talking to an audience but they were recorded, but it still felt like it had captured a kind of unpracticed moment or something. Where they were it felt unfiltered. I don’t know what his liveness what his liveness is that question that’s really interesting.

Denis O’Hare
The audience, Lisa and I talked a lot about the audience and I think for an audience being live means you are seen and you are heard. So if we’re in a comedy in New York, your laughter is part of the show. And the actors look at you will look out to the audience for laugh to push that laugh line. You didn’t even give or take like can you believe it? That’s you being seen. So, Lisa and I in our evolution of this piece are very concerned with the audience being seen and heard. Because what is the difference? If they’re not seen, if they’re just blank. And Lisa and I are on two Talking Heads. We can’t feel them. And we need to feel them.

Jose:
I missed the coughs these days when I’m watching theater, in my bedroom. Like I need someone coughing you know, but next to me.

Diep:
You touched on like what I really love about theater, which is the fact that I’m accountable to the people on stage as well as an audience member. And I have to focus I can’t look at my phone. I can’t be distracted by anything else. Like I have to be present in the moment, which how often can we be present in our modern life? And so just backstage at What is a republic anyway?, so are y’all gonna like just look at 100 tiny little zoom screens on your end?

Lisa Peterson:
Yeah.

Denis O’Hare
Sometimes.

Diep:
Oh, I love it.

Lisa Peterson:
Yeah, at least in the first episode, the one that we’ve practiced a bit up at Dartmouth. We we asked people to enter and then we’re moving the audience. So in a way, I suppose it’s more like it isn’t like Sleep No More, but it moves the audience from room to room. So we might say, okay, we’re gonna put you in the quote unquote green room now, we won’t see you right now but then Hey everybody, can you turn on your video and up come a couple pages worth of faces and and then we’ll have an interaction and then we’ll say, okay, turn your video off and back they’ll go to the green room. And you know, Denis and I took part in this, the orchard project, all their labs were digital this summer, all their workshops, were digital, they did a lab called the liveness lab, that Denis and I took part in and the most interesting thing about it was they decided to have absolutely everybody who applied would do it, because there wasn’t scarcity. So 130 mostly theater artists, were all part of this and just to try to be part of a zoom community that’s that big, was exciting and also frustrating. We’d be put into breakout rooms and then we’d be pulled back into a big room and the experience of doing that felt pretty fun. So I think in part we’re going to would like to give the audience for this piece that same experience

Jose:
So it’s like Fefu where you can turn the lights on and off.

Lisa Peterson:
Fefu. Yes, yeah, that’s a better example than Sleep No more. Yeah.

Jose:
I love it. This is a time of the interview where you plug everything you want us to see between the New York Theater workshop project and everything you have going on streaming or in the future.

Lisa Peterson:
So as part of New York theatre workshops, season of instigators making work for the digital platform. We are putting this piece What the Hell is Republic Anyway? on for four episodes, plus a fifth. All building toward the election on November 3. So our first episode will air on September 22. In the early evening, I’m not sure exactly what time but the 22nd. Then two weeks later, we’ll do Episode Two. I think that’s October 6. And then the third episode is two weeks later on the 22nd, I think. And the fourth episode is the night before the election November 2. Monday, November 2. Oh, yes, Denis. You’re right. The third episode is the 20th of its so it’s a Tuesdays three Tuesdays and then a Monday. And then we’re going to do two weeks after the election. That’s the kind of, let’s gather together with the audience we’ve built and talk about what has happened either way, we’re going to do that.

Denis O’Hare
And if you can’t come live, you’ll be able to see it afterwards. You can catch up you can watch it streaming. But what we say is more than any of the thing the reason you want to be live on this one is that you’re going to be in it. So you want to be in it. You don’t want to be watching it later and go I can’t be in it!

Lisa Peterson:
Exactly. You want to be one of those little boxes. Yeah, I am also at the same time working on a radio play version of It can’t happen here adapted from the Sinclair Lewis novel. This is a project that I actually directed four years ago at about this time at Berkeley Rep. And we decided very last minute that that we would put it together as a as a large scale radio project. So Berkeley rep is producing it, but it’s going to go out to theaters across the country, just like it did back in during the WPA in 1936. So I am actually in the middle of rehearsing and starting to record that now. It can’t happen here is also very political work of art about what would happen if a ridiculous clownish, fascistic leaning person was, was elected as President of the United States. Fascism comes to the United States in that story, which is set in 1935 and was inspired by the candidacy of Huey Long and also seeing clearly what was happening in Europe at the time being worried about it.

So it can happen here.

Well now we know we can.

Diep:
Now we know it can

Lisa Peterson:
Yeah, and it can get worse. We think this is pretty bad, but it can get worse.

Denis O’Hare
I am doing a bunch of just little teeny things in the side, you know, always a bunch of side hustles. I was in American Gods, which we shot last year in Canada. And that’s going to be coming out soon. I think I did four episodes of that. And it was pretty fun. I’m in London right now doing this TV series for HBO called the Nevers. And so I shot 5 episodes now I’m shooting my sixth episode that won’t be out until next year, but it’s Josh Sweden is pretty great. And I’m writing a novel about the eventual breakup of the United States. And I’ve written my first draft, and I’m sending it out to my literary agent and I’m trying to find a publisher, publish my novel I had pitched as a TV series and everybody loved the idea. But nobody would buy it because it’s too scary. And so I was like, I’m gonna write the novel. And so that’s what I’m doing right now. And I hope to get the novel written, published, and then somebody will adapt it for TV. I’ll be right back where I started from.

Diep:
It’s timely now.

Denis O’Hare
Yeah, it is. I mean, the prob, the problem is, is that things that I’ve written in the novel are already coming true, and like, ah, I can’t stay ahead of history. I wrote a character in a novel. It’s kind of an awful woman named Karen. Just that kind of awful like, know it all. And I was like, Oh, my God, Karen is coming true. So I can’t stay ahead of the reality fast enough.

Lisa Peterson:
Are you keeping her name? Karen?

Denis O’Hare
Yeah, yeah, there you wrote it. Yeah. But you know.

Jose:
I mean, if that means you have prophetic powers, then please find a happy ending for the republic then.

Diep:
Yes, Jose.

Denis O’Hare
Yes. Good notes, good notes.

Diep:
And now we have a special new segment that we want to introduce to all of you every week. We’re going To try to give a shout out to one of our Patreon patrons and what they’re working on, because we love them, and they’re doing great work as well. And we think you should know more about the people who support us. So Jose, who are we shouting out today?

Jose:
Absolutely. Today we’re saying hi to Garlia Cornelia, who joined us recently. Welcome to our community. And Garlia is an artist, also a wonderful theatre person, and she’s also the artistic director of Blackboard Plays. And her resume says, quite quite, quite impressive. She’s done work at the public, and work all over. Well done, Garlia, We are so honored to have you as one of our listeners and viewers. And we hope to make you very happy and proud with what we do over here. Let us know what you’re working on. Maybe someday you’ll be on our show.

Diep:
Crossing fingers doing great things. Our patrons are oh my gosh, I sound like the Yoda.

Jose:
On purpose that was.

Diep:
And you can find links to Garlia’s work on our website, talking theater friends .com, as well as links to the things that we talked about on this episode. And if you love our podcast and you love what we do, then please become a patron on Patreon we have an account, you can become a patron for as little as $1 a month, and that’ll give you access to our weekly newsletter of recommendations and outtakes and we also do reader polls and discussions. And you can DM us, slide into our DMS whenever you want. Or if you can’t, then rate us review us share our stuff. And we’re just glad that you are here.

Jose:
We’re very, very glad. And also, if you become a patron, you’re gonna be the coolest credit sequence of all times, because you’re gonna have your name next to like cool people, on a video version. So check that out, check out the credits and be like, so we want to be part of those credits, they’re really cool.

Diep:
Is there anything else you want to say to the people?

Jose:
Don’t go to gender reveal parties don’t cause any fires. Vote Democrat all the way down. And I love you AOC. Please listen to the show.

Diep:
Please come on the show. Or Kelli, please come on the show. We’ve talked about you so much.

Jose:
Do you think she knows?

Diep:
Maybe we can try tweeting at her and then if we tweet at her enough.

Jose:
Oh my god.

Diep:
Stephanie J Block still needs to get back to us.

Jose:
Yes, I know please, Stephanie. Come on our show. Like I’ll wear all my Cher stuff for you.

Diep:
The Cher show stuff? If I could turn back time.

Jose:
We would not be here if we could turn back time we would we would have clear skies and all that.

Diep:
Hillary would win. Yeah. Oh, man. Okay, have a good week, everyone. We’ll see you next week.

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