Every week, culture critics Diep Tran and Jose Solís bring a POC perspective to the performing arts with their Token Theatre Friends podcast and video series. The show can be found on Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, and YouTube. You can listen to episodes from the previous version of the podcast here but to get new episodes, you will need to resubscribe to our new podcast feed (look for the all-red logo).
On this week’s episode, the Friends talked to musician and actor Josh Groban (Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812), who is about to release a new album called Harmony in November. But before that happens, he’s doing a series of live virtual concerts, where he will be performing new songs and taking requests from his back catalogue. The first of those concerts on Oct. 3 will be Broadway themed so get your show-tune requests ready now! Groban called in to talk about creating music and finding faith during the pandemic.
Here are links to the things they talked about this week:
- The Bail Project
- Romantics Anonymous by Emma Rice, Christopher Dimond, and Michael Kooman—presented at the Old Vic.
- Josh Groban’s newest song: “Your Face.”
- A classic Groban song: “You Raise Me Up.”
- A very prescient Groban song, written by the late Adam Schlesinger: “End of the Movie.”
- Info about Groban’s next livestream concerts
- This week’s Patreon shoutout: Mike Sablone, whose company the Warehouse Theatre in Greenville, S.C., are doing a Zoom piece called Objectivity. It’s a Zoom seminar run by a “famous” decluttering expert that doesn’t go as planned. It’s part seminar, part interactive show, and part musical. It runs Sept. 30-Oct. 17. Break a leg, Mike!
The episode transcript is below:
Diep:
Hi, everyone, this is Diep Tran your Token Theatre Friend. I’m really sorry, the podcast is late this week. And Jose could not make it because he and I could not find a time to record together. I’m still in California at my parents house. Jose was in Baltimore. And I also had a freelance gig this week that had me working eight straight hours a day. Next week, we should be getting back to our regular schedule. But before I turn it over to the interview Jose and I did last week, with the very talented Josh Groban, pause for reaction, I wanted to give you all a quick look into what’s going on in my mind this week, and what I’m thinking about and what I hope you can take away from the news.
First of all, my heart goes out to Breonna Taylor’s family, and everyone who is protesting the decision that let the three police officers who murdered her while she was in her apartment, it did not prosecute them. And she has not received the justice that she deserved. And, and I cannot say that decision was surprising, but it was disappointing nevertheless. So I would like to remind everyone who is listening to donate to the Bail Project, in order to help everyone who is protesting on the ground and risking their lives right now. Even if you feel like you are not doing enough, I don’t really think anyone is doing enough right now. But if you are able to do what you can, then every little bit helps the cause. And I truly believe it.
And I also wanted to take this moment to talk about what Josh Groban is going to talk about a little bit later, which is gratitude and trying to be grateful for some of the, I wouldn’t say blessings or positive things, but some of the things that we’re able to do right now, during this time that we would not be able to do otherwise such as protesting. And for me personally, I have been able to spend the most time with my family in California that I’ve ever had in years. I’m going to be on the West Coast for more than a month actually. And I’ve been able to reconnect with my aunt who I haven’t seen in 20 years because she is stuck in America for the foreseeable future, because there are no flights from America to Vietnam right now because we are a shithole country. But she and I have been able to reconnect and she tells me that I look like my grandmother who I have never met, on my dad’s side. And I’ve also been able to sing Hamilton with my nieces and nephews, they are obsessed with Hamilton. They’ve seen it three times in the past two weeks. And I’ve been able to partake in that joy with them, and discovering that they love musical theater. So I’m really happy that we get to have these sing alongs together which would not be happening if this was just a normal environment.
And before I turn it over to our interview, I also wanted to let you all know that in next week’s podcast Jose and I will be talking about to Romantics Anonymous, which is a new play created by British director Emma Rice of Kneehigh Theatre Company and it will be broadcasted live from the Old Vic in London and it will be live broadcasted until September 26th. And it’ll be available on demand until September 28. So if you want to watch that with us, go online and buy our tickets. The link to that will be available in this episode description.
And considering this week that the Metropolitan Opera announced that they will be canceling all live performances until fall 2021. I think it is overdue now for producers to figure out an alternative way of presenting work, or if they cannot present work, an alternative mission for their organization. This Off-Off Broadway theatre company that I love in New York City called Soho Rep has now pivoted to supporting artists. And they’ve recently named 18 artist who will be joining their staff full time and will be getting a salary until next summer. If a company is not pivoting right now to alternative modes of production, or to additional ways of supporting artists, it’s both bad business sense, and they are going to make themselves irrelevant and probably threaten the livelihood of the company as it is. No company can just shut down and hope that theatre will come back within the next four months, they need to be figuring out a way to still create and support.
And on a final note, I want to encourage all of you who love live performance and want it to come back as soon as possible. Now is not the time to be apolitical, we cannot afford to be our livelihoods, the state of our planet, it depends on it. So I encourage all of you to do what you can to get out the vote to encourage people in your own lives to vote to continue fighting so that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris can get elected, and that the Democrats can retake control of the Senate. So we can actually have a federal response that resemble South Korea, where they had a national response, and now theaters can be open there. That could be us if we had a president that actually gave a shit. So this is not the time to be apolitical or think the arts are somehow separate from everything that’s happening. Obviously, it is not. Do what you can to get as many people to vote as you can, to give them the right information to fight misinformation.
And by electing the right people to positions of power in this country, we’ll actually get somewhere with everything that we’ve been fighting for the last four years, the last half a century, which is universal health care, racial justice, police reform, arts, funding, all those things that we want, and we think are unattainable. They are attainable with the right people. So do not sit back. Do what you can to keep fighting and to get the people around you to vote. I know this is a theater podcast, and I did not expect to get in front of this microphone and start talking about all of these things. I guess I’m really just feeling a lot right now. I’m sure that you all are too. But I hope that you all are having a okay week considering and finding some joy wherever you can. And I think this next part of the show will give you a lot of joy because our guest for this episode is the multi-talented—doesn’t have a Tony yet, but he will get there—Josh Groban who has a new album Harmony coming out in November. And he’s doing three concerts in quarantine. And one of them, on October 3, will be a Broadway-themed concert. So all of you who loved hearing him or seeing him and the Broadway musical Natasha, Pierre & the Great Comet of 1812, rejoice. And for those of you who are new to this podcast, and are here because of Josh Groban. Welcome. I hope you like it. And I hope that you come back. Josh talks to me and Jose about how he started these quarantine concerts in his bathroom and how he’s learning to make them better and how he’s now taking requests from audiences live during his concerts. So let’s go to that interview.
Jose:
Josh Groban. Thank you so much for joining us. I have a very important question to ask. I was looking at my Great Comet book before talking to you and I was hooked. It is really really fantastic. And I was like, hold on, is this you pre pandemic, and is this you after the epidemic. Although you look fabulous.
Josh Groban:
I think I know which picture? Yep, that does it. Yeah, that is—could not be more accurate Jose. Yes, yes. But I will say though, that in the second picture, even though I do have a half empty bottle of wine, there’s some great, great reading going on. I gotta say there’s some amazing reading and writing going on. Yeah, it’s been a time I think for for all of us. But I think the thing for all of us in the artistic community is that we’re, in some ways, I’ve never been more connected with my creative friends and family, because, you know, we’re all just checking in on each other constantly, and finding ways to send each other what we’re working on and invite each other to each other’s Zooms whether they’re creative, or friendly, or just a drink on a Friday night. I do hope that that part, when we return back to some semblance of normal in the future, is the appreciation of what we had, who we have, around us. And kind of taking things back to the idea of just like, we’re just gonna be there for each other and support each other. That can get lost sometimes when you’re, when you just got nothing but a fast treadmill of things you’re trying to accomplish and places to be and people to see. I think that that’s one silver lining amongst a bog of awfulness. So yes, those pictures are accurate, and you just made me miss my Great Comet family and not miss having an accordion and a fur coat on every night. I got a little warm, but everything else.
Diep:
Well, at least you didn’t have to be the ones climbing those stairs, because I’ve talked to some cast members and they still complaining about their knees.
Josh Groban:
Truly they are. We had such a treacherous jungle gym of a set. That was really fun. I mean, like, you know, our first tech rehearsals were like, we get to play on this every night? But that honeymoon was over after like performance 72 or something, you know, when you have clarinetists you know, high-kicking through the balconies. Yeah, our PT was put to hard work during that show. And a lot of stuff. My character, thankfully, was not supposed to move well, so there wasn’t wasn’t a lot of high kicking I had to do. There was one drunken high kick where I actually fell into the pit one night, because I was supposed to be belligerent. The audience just kind of bought it, like wow he’s method. I did the stagedoor that night, everybody was just like, “How do you do that every night? That was amazing.” I’m like, thank you. Thank you. I know.
Diep:
I know. Like I’m a real actor.
Josh Groban:
Oh, man, look, Ben Platt is crying his eyes out next door, but I am falling on the drumset. I am bruised to hell right now. Give me the Tony.
Diep:
Better luck next time, right?
Josh Groban:
Well, I only fell once. If I fell more, you know, I’ve learned my lesson.
Jose:
You have a new album coming out, you’re going to be doing a series of concerts. And your first concert is going to be Broadway songs. And I wonder if you know, going back to that book with Pierre, what is it like to put together a setlist of your favorite Broadway tunes, because there’s like a billion, like a zillion.
Josh Groban:
It’s, it’s hard because there are just so many from so many eras of musical theater, so many eras of your own life where you were inspired by by musical theater. When I think about, you know, being a child in the ’80s and kind of the the explosion of the grand, you know, just format-changing musicals in that time period. To now when you have so many forward-thinking and genre-breaking plays and musicals—some of them now virtual. I mean, like we’re in a whole new territory of expression in the theater, inclusiveness, everything is shifted so much, how do you choose all the songs? How do you choose all the eras. And so that’s, that’s the thing that kind of, can be the most, you know, debilitating when thinking about songs, you can just be stuck, because there’s just too many to choose from. But I do have a little bit of a template with it, with the Broadway album Stages that I did, because I went through a lot of that hard part. Doing that album I chose, when I made that album, to just focus on the songs that I grew up with, so focus on the stuff that, you know, that really introduced me to the world of theater when I was a student. And so to do a live stream like this, there’s songs from that.
And then we open up the comments and we say, what do you want to hear? You know, to the Broadway fans. The incredible thing about doing a show, like Great Comet, was that it was able to introduce my fans, who only knew me from the music I’ve made in the past, to this extraordinary world, and especially to a show that was so interesting and creatively good for Broadway, with Dave Malloy’s score and this incredible cast. And so I got a lot of my fans to now follow me into the Broadway universe and I made fans that only then knew me from doing the Broadway show that hadn’t previously listened to my other stuff. So a show like this, in some ways, is the most important to me, because it gives me a chance to honor that world. It’s meant so much to me my whole life and to do it virtually, which means that people from all over the world can listen to it and hopefully be you know, invigorated by it. If they’re a fan of my stuff, and we’ll learn about these songs or if they’re a fan of that world and they get to listen to it from Argentina, wherever, France, so we had 63 countries that tuned in on the last one. So it’s an exciting time to do a show like this, when we all miss Broadway so very much.
Diep:
Right. And I feel like with the live stream, you’re like, you’re mimicking the experience of seeing someone live and you know, like, it can’t be replicated again. And since you’ve been doing this at the pandemic, what have you learned? What’s the key to performing via Zoom? Especially music, like music has been like a tougher nut to crack?
Josh Groban:
Yeah, definitely. Um, so to the first point, I mean, that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to do it live live, because I think a lot of people are, you know, they’re pre-taping. And they’re pre taping in extraordinary locations, you know, but it’s still the same as if you were to go buy a DVD of a concert from wherever. And we really wanted this to have as much of the communal aspect of being in person as possible. So when we fade up, that’s happening, you know, and I’m getting a feed in real time on my iPad, of people commenting and tuning in. And we might change a song because somebody says it on line, there might be cracked notes, there might be better notes than I’ve ever sung in my life.
The amazing thing that comes from the live performance, we wanted to do that with this, we wanted this to be a way for people around the world, we’re doing them earlier in the day, Pacific time, so people from around the world can tune in, to come together. And it is weird, not having applause at the end of the songs. But to read the comments after the fact. And to see so many people have a moment of escape, and to be able to connect in that way, just meant everything to me. And I was able to perform for more people than I would ever perform for in a single concert. But the sound issue is a big one, because I started doing these kind of in my bedroom. And I was just kind of singing into my laptop. As a joke, I went into the shower and started singing, fully clothed, and the acoustics were incredible. And so people were like sing more songs in the shower. And so I wound up doing these shower songs. And it just like, I just kind of said to myself, like oh my God, we are really DIY right now. And at some point, we have to transition into, how do we exist in this new normal, where I get to hire my band and crew. And I get to really kind of give myself and give the fans the quality that they have come to expect because this is going to be a minute and so the place that we’re recording this—it was not recorded, it’s live, but the place that we’re going to be filming it live, it’s got top of the line, state of the art, sound equipment, visual equipment, streaming equipment. So we tested this in June and it just went off without a hitch, got a huge wooden cutting board that I’m knocking on right now. That was important to us that if we’re going to start doing these, that when people decide to get a virtual ticket to this, that they’re going to get something very, very high quality.
Jose:
I love that, like I wish people would applaud when I’m singing in the shower, but my neighbors usually say, shut up.
Josh Groban:
You know, as long as you sound great to you, that’s the thing about the shower,is that as long as you are just in it, you know, doesn’t matter if anybody’s listening,
Jose:
I’m gonna use that, you know, I’m going to show this to my mom and everything and be like, Well, you know, you can’t shut me up anymore, Mom. I have a serious question. So I’m gonna stop laughing. Um, you know, we’re recording this a few days after 9/11. And I think about you. Okay, that sounds strange. I think about your song, “You Raise Me Up” around this time, because it was a time, you know, I hadn’t moved to New York yet. And I was living outside the States. And I remember your song, becoming an anthem for what was happening and seeing people literally—you know, the soul of the country, and also the soul of the world, in many ways—rise up again. And I wonder for you, you know, I cannot believe that it’s been so long since that. And I wonder, almost two decades after that, you haven’t aged a bit nor has your song. In fact, it’s appropriate for what we’re going through right now all over the world. It’s one of the anthems of humanity, I would say of the, you know, the time that we’ve been alive. And I wonder what’s it like for you? You recorded it so long ago, and it feels so freakin important and so iconic?
Josh Groban:
Well, first of all, I appreciate you saying that means a lot to me. So often, we record you know, I’m in a little studio and you you put songs out there and you hope that people will connect. And stories like yours remind me why songs like that, why making music, why continuing to sing, especially songs of hope, I think are so important because they are timeless. And the amazing thing about a song like that is that you know, I was so young when I recorded it, and I feel this way about a lot of the songs I recorded at that age: I enjoy actually singing them more now than I did then because I’ve lived since then, like I was kind of like thinking to myself, whether it’s that song or another song. There were a lot of songs back then, where like I got the broad stroke of why it was important. There’s only so much you can, you can tap into, if you haven’t, like walked it yet and been through it and, and experienced it. So, to go back and sing songs like that today, um, where I’ve witnessed the country changing in so many ways, where I’ve been through so many experiences where we’ve had to be there for each other in ways we had never expected. Where togetherness and defeating, you know, other-ism and fear and anxiety more than ever is so important. It feels so wonderful to have a song that can be so universal like that. And to uplift people.
I think songs of hope, songs of thanks, songs of gratitude. They never die, there’s always, you know, in good times, and bad, gonna be great reasons to have those songs in our lives and to have those songs as the soundtrack, to help us get through the hard moments and to celebrate the good moments. And so as somebody who has a couple of songs like that in my catalogue, it never gets old. For me, it never gets old for me to hear a story like that and never gets old for me to go out and sing it and see all the iPhones in the air, you know, it’s a great feeling and, and so, to that point, on a broader scale, having music just in general right now has been so mentally life saving for me. It’s been such an amazing thing to be able to create, I feel very fortunate to be able to create, to be able to be a fan and listen, and to be able to have fans to listen to what I do. I’m very, very grateful. So thank you for that.
Diep:
“You Raise Me Up” is like a very optimistic song. So when Adam Schlesinger died like earlier this year from COVID-19. And he was such an amazing songwriter, and incredible, and I loved Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, like I rewatch it pretty regularly. And as soon as I heard the news that he had passed, I put on, “The End of the Movie,” the song that you sang at the end of one of the really dark episodes of the show. Because for me, it’s one part morose, but one part actually like quite, quite like funny. It’s an oddly uplifting experience. And so like, how have you been? Have you been going through like your old catalogue to kind of remind yourself of what gave you hope before this.
Josh Groban:
First of all, Adam was was just such a brilliant, brilliant songwriter. And he was so exceptional in “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend,” as a writer, because he was able to do that thing that is that is deceptively one of the hardest things to possibly do, which is to write something with humorous overtones, that that underneath the surface, are actually full of so many incredible truths and are actually very, very poignant. And so to be able to make somebody laugh and really listen at the same time, is was one of his greatest gifts, and he’s going to be so, so missed, and I was so proud to have sung a song of his with Rachel Bloom. And yeah, I mean, I’ve been going back. Part of the fun of these live streams and getting requests from people is that you go back and you start kind of rehearsing and listening to and singing songs that you hadn’t really thought of. I’m not my own biggest fan, like that’s for other people. You know, once I’ve released something into the world, you know, it’s for them. And so when you get asked to do songs that are kind of deeper in your catalogue, stuff you haven’t listened to or assumed you were going to do anytime soon again. And you get a note from buddy saying, from somebody saying, this song meant a lot to me. Or this song, the message of the song is changed for me because of X, Y, and Z. That’s the kind of back and forth that is making these so fun. Because, you know, when you go out and you do a mega tour, if you’ve got your tour and your trucks and your buses, and you’re just, you’re basically a traveling circus. You can make some changes every night. But every one of those changes has a light cue and a sound cue and 50 people that need to know what you’re going to do. And so to do these, where we’re much lighter on our feet, and we can switch it up and we can take requests and we can decide, you know what, I’m going to tell the story, and the story leading me to a song I never thought I do. And we’re just going to do it. That’s really fun for me. And so I think for me going back into the catalogue, sure I’ll listen to that stuff. And I’ll find new meanings and all kinds of things. But as somebody who mostly gets the most meaning from my songs by performing them for people, that’s where it’s been the most fun for me is to get those requests. Yeah.
Diep:
Okay, I’ll request “The End of the Movie” next time.
Josh Groban:
Yeah, it’s a great, I might have to do it. I might have to do it on Broadway night.
Diep:
Yeah, because it’s like how life is like, it seems it’s meaningless. Sometimes it can seem meaningless. Sometimes I feel like that’s the mood of this.
Josh Groban:
Life doesn’t make narrative sense.
Jose:
Well, I was gonna be like the weird one here and be like, I have never felt more hopeful for so many of the reasons that you’re actually mentioning right now. They’re like, people all over the world get to see your work, you know, people who weren’t able to see on Broadway, for instance, get to see you sing Broadway songs. Can you talk about the other side of that, about the things that are actually giving you hope right now? The things that are, you know, the theater that you’ve seen maybe on Zoom? Or if you’re an Animal Crossing person like me, the Animal Crossing theater? Yes.
Josh Groban:
Right. We’ll visit each other’s islands soon. Yes.
Jose:
Yes. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that, what’s making you excited about, you know, things that are from this new world, so to speak, that you wish we could carry into the old world when we go back to it at some point?
Josh Groban:
Absolutely. I think that one of the things that and I kind of touched upon it earlier, but but the fact that I wrote a song that I released, I’m going to be putting it on the new album called “Your Face.” And it was simply inspired by the fact that all of the stuff that we rely on, all the stuff that we get to say we’re doing that we have, that we’re looking forward to—we’ve been taken down to just, who we are, how we connect as human beings, face to face through a very, very difficult time. Which can show the true character of a lot of people. And the thing that’s given me that hope is that the true character of the vast majority of the people that I’ve come in contact with, when I’m not on Twitter, because Twitter is just a…yeah, um.
But when I walk around New York, when I’m in the artistic community, it’s good. We want to help each other, we want to learn how we can best help each other. We want to grow, there’s always going to be ways in which we need to shine a light on and be passionately angry about the things that aren’t right, and the people that don’t have good intentions. But where I find hope is in the humanity that I’ve seen, where people do want to make change for good, people do want to find out how to grow from this. And just simply the thing that I’d like to have stayed the same from all this is remembering how important those simple things are. I have never been more grateful for my family, the people that I have in my life: my friends, my girlfriend, any pet that I meet on the street, I don’t care if it’s mine or not, like the fact that now when I have a conversation, it’s not 30 seconds, like I will keep that person for an hour. Because I want to know more, there’s so much that is is bringing us back to, I think, why we’re here to begin with, from this. And that’s not discounting the extraordinary tragedy that this has been, or the the deep sadness and trauma that this has been for everybody.
But through the trauma, and through the tragedies, if we can come out of this with more appreciation and gratitude for those simple things, why we create, why we love, why we make friends, why we take a walk in the park, and continue with that simple gratitude, I’d consider that a silver lining in all this. That’s what I hope to take from all of this. Because I think as we all are guilty of doing it, we get lost in our own egos ,we get lost in our own looking over the hedge: What am I doing? What am I not doing? Who’s doing that with whatever? We all are guilty of scrolling through Instagram and thinking about stuff that is not important. And it’s a good time to take stock in what’s important. And so I’ll hold onto that. I’ll hold onto that, hopefully, because we all need reminding. But music helps us with that, too. I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about that question, too. I mean, I may not have the most eloquent answer to that question. Because I think a lot of that, that internal conversation questions about like, how do you move forward? How do you continue? How do you grow? A lot of it is internal. I think a lot of us are kind of swimming in our own thoughts about how we, how we handle this in ways that sometimes you can’t neatly express verbally, because there is a lot of time to think, there is a lot of time for that.
But it’s also given me a greater connection to the idea of faith, it’s given me a greater idea idea of connection, of being able to not control and being okay with that. And that doesn’t mean it has to necessarily be within the confines of any specific religion. Just the idea that it’s okay to let go. And I think if it’s a spiritual thing, if it’s a religious thing, that being comfortable with the hope of faith is something that in our cynical world, a lot of people, especially my generation, sometimes kind of look at with a side eye. And so that’s been something that’s been—and I’ve expressed it in some of the newer music that I’ve been singing lately—but um, that has been something that I’ve been having an amazing time speaking with people of faith in every religion, right now. Talking to them about what brought them, talking to them about what it means to them to have that, in times like this. As somebody who was raised with different faiths. And as somebody who’s always considered myself, you know, atheist—but somewhat agnostic about what it’s all about, and being okay with wondering what it’s all about—the idea that we can let go, the idea that we can have gratitude and have faith, without necessarily having to have it defined, has been very, very comforting to me in these times. And something that I also hope to continue with me throughout.
Jose:
It’s really beautiful. Thank you for sharing that I actually call this the time of surrender. And surrender is usually the word that we associate with giving up. I’m in Brooklyn, trapped in my apartment since March. And around the time that usually I would be going to a show or like kind of subway to go into, you know, to the city for a show. Now I’m home. And now I get to see those beautiful sunsets every single day. It makes me feel like very Madonna, like a prayer. I’m down on my knees and how can you not surrender to such beauty? That otherwise I wouldn’t be able to appreciate. So thank you for sharing that. Totally. Beautiful.
Josh Groban:
Thank you guys. Great chatting with you.
Diep:
Thank you all for listening to our interview with Josh Groban. Jose will be back next week. And this is a time of the episode where one of us will tell you about our Patreon and why you should be come a patron. Token Theatre Friends, is a labor of love for me and Jose. We love theater so much that we are doing a theater podcast during a pandemic when there is no live theater. But not only do we have a podcast, we also put the videos of every episode up on YouTube so you can watch all that. And we also have a website TokenTheaterFriends.com where we publish reviews and interviews and features, featuring cool people who are not despairing during this time. They are doing something and they are giving us hope. And we are grateful for that. And we want to feature that. And so if you love what we do, I hope you consider becoming a Patreon supporter. For as little as $1 a month you’ll help support the Token Theatre Friends and our work. We’re 100% reader funded and so you supporting us means that we can keep doing this project even though there’s no live theater. But as long as you all enjoy it, we’ll keep doing it. And this week, our Patreon shout out is to our patron Mike Sablone who is doing an online project called Objectivity at the Warehouse Theater in Greenville, South Carolina, or as he said, quote, “or really everywhere.” It’s a Zoom seminar run by a famous de-cluttering expert that doesn’t go as planned. It’s part seminar, part interactive show and part musical, Mike said. They open September 30 and they run for three weeks. He also said that it’s been thrilling to just work on something new and theatrical after six months of inactivity. We are thrilled for you, Mike, congratulations on the show and we are so excited for you. If Marie Kondo-ing your life is something you want to do, then be sure to check out Objectivity, the link to it and all of the things that we talked about on this podcast will be available on TokenTheatreFriends.com. Have a good week, everyone. Do what you can and I hope you find some joy in life this week. Thank you. Bye.